I'm pretty sure Ghostisbehere will be top six before the years end. It will be difficult to keep Morin out at the beginning of next season. I don't know that much about Haag and reports conflict. Sanheim seems promising but who know what he looks like at the end of this junior season.
- mayorofangrytown

As excited as I am about him, Ghost will have A LOT of growing up to do in the AHL this season. His skating and puck skills are NHL top-4 right now, but his defense and decision making (time-wise) need some major refining. He won't have nearly the same time he had in college, and he won't be able to use his speed and natural ability to dominate away from the puck. I think it's close to a full year in the AHL for him, maybe with a call-up a few times towards the end depending on his progression.

What would you offer him that would be too much for the Kings to match?


Remember that RFA offer sheets are not free. Do we really wanna start giving up 1st rounders again?
- jak521

Assuming LA keeps Carter and Richards, 4M a year makes it tough for them to fill out the rest of the roster, and I look at as Mussin is the 1st round D man you didn't get a few years ago...

obviously not the best option by any stretch, but absent a trade with LA, may be one of the few options the flyers have if they chose to go after a Dman this summer.

Assuming LA keeps Carter and Richards, 4M a year makes it tough for them to fill out the rest of the roster, and I look at as Mussin is the 1st round D man you didn't get a few years ago...

obviously not the best option by any stretch, but absent a trade with LA, may be one of the few options the flyers have if they chose to go after a Dman this summer.
- JW98FlyerFan

I'd try to swing a trade with Washington for Carlson. Maybe a trade centered around B. Schenn.

Agree, but looking at what is out there next year he may be one of the few vialble options...and short of a trade that moves out some of the forward talent, I don't see it happening...
- JW98FlyerFan

The problems with an offer sheet are two fold-one you have to pay the player at a rate that his old team will refuse to match, which means that you're going to end up overpaying the player. Secondly, if the other team doesn't match, you're forfeiting draft picks, which is part of the reason the Flyers are in the mess they are in.

It's still not a rebuild when you have three 28+ year old anchors signed to multiyear deals on the blue line to complement the young guys coming thru.

Anaheim have Fowler (22) Lindhom (20) and Vatanen (23) in their top 7 this year.
- Feanor

We all admit that those same 3 28+ players right now, can't anchor a defense to the level of building a cup caliber defense. Are they going to be able to in the future? So barring any future trades or free agent signings, who is the team and the fans looking towards in the future, to anchor and build the defense to a championship level?

Assuming LA keeps Carter and Richards, 4M a year makes it tough for them to fill out the rest of the roster, and I look at as Mussin is the 1st round D man you didn't get a few years ago...

obviously not the best option by any stretch, but absent a trade with LA, may be one of the few options the flyers have if they chose to go after a Dman this summer.
- JW98FlyerFan

Not especially hard to keep him at $4mm. The Kings can trade players, and create room if they feel Muzzin is a key piece moving forward. Plus the cap will likely go up.

As excited as I am about him, Ghost will have A LOT of growing up to do in the AHL this season. His skating and puck skills are NHL top-4 right now, but his defense and decision making (time-wise) need some major refining. He won't have nearly the same time he had in college, and he won't be able to use his speed and natural ability to dominate away from the puck. I think it's close to a full year in the AHL for him, maybe with a call-up a few times towards the end depending on his progression.
- jmatchett383

So you'd say that Ghost already has top 4 skating a puck skills? If that's true, we're in a good spot with him if he only needs a year or two in the A to refine his game.

I'll admit, I've got no read on that situation. I know he'll be motivated, and obviously has had success before. We need him to succeed but I'm not sure he will. Here's hoping. And if he does, I hope we can re sign him. Hope it's a Mase like situation.
- Hextall271

Totally agree.. He was drafted high, showed some seriously gifted ability early on, and then has struggled since. I am just hoping that he can regain a bit of his early form. I dont think he will ever be a top pair, hell top 4 might be a huge stretch, but if he can play decent 3rd pair minutes and work well on the PP.. that will be great for the Flyers.

He has fantastic skating ability, and is pretty gifted offensively.. great low risk/ high reward signing.

If I was going to make a move next summer I would offer sheet Jake Muzzin from LA, you know Hexy knows the kid and LA is sandbagged with Richards and Carter contracts, they only have 16M in cap space and only 12 roster players at that point...
- JW98FlyerFan

LA has done a real good job developing a player who was given up on by other teams, and developing him into a nice player. But he plays with Drew Doughty, and on a team that is one of the top puck support teams, and one of the best teams defensively. If you put Jake Muzzin on the Flyers last year, he'd be a scapegoat. Especially if he was a player that was signed to a big overpayment from an offer sheet.

We also shouldnt forget that we have a wildcard in the group as well.

If MDZ can turn things around that will be a HUGE boost for the Flyers.
- jak521

I agree. And I have high hopes for Del Zotto. I don't think he just all of a sudden lost his ability. But that's a good example of the ups and downs of a lot of young defenseman, and the time they need to develop.

Maybe Morin will need than one season in the AHL, and we will resign LSchenn. Or maybe Alt steps up and it looks like this.

MacDonald-Coburn
Ghost-LSchenn/Alt
Hagg-Streit

But I would be shocked if Hagg and Ghost aren't in the top 6 two years from now. There's also Sanheim and according to Bill his skating is already outstanding and NHL-level.
- Feanor

This is the best case scenario in terms of the young dmen. I can't imagine Alt, Ghost, Hagg as well as Morin and Sanheim will all become NHL dmen. Chances are one will bounce between leagues (the NHL equivalent of a AAAA player) and others will be middle of the pack. It's just as possible that all will be bottom pairing dmen vs all reaching their potential. Maybe more so.

The problems with an offer sheet are two fold-one you have to pay the player at a rate that his old team will refuse to match, which means that you're going to end up overpaying the player. Secondly, if the other team doesn't match, you're forfeiting draft picks, which is part of the reason the Flyers are in the mess they are in.
- Jsaquella

I think partially true, the picks we did have we used on forwards, and missed on the D picks we had...Getting a guy like Mussin is your 1st round pick and he is viable immediately and at 4-4.5M a year you are not overpaying for him, it just depends on how bad LA wants to keep him...and I am sure that would be established ahead of time by talking about a trade.

I saw the post on Carlson from WASH, that is interesting as well, just not sure how willing they would be to part with him...

Any other RFA/trade options out there? just not seeing much in the well for the Flyers to even consider without a setback as we wait and see with the group of D we have coming up...

Totally agree.. He was drafted high, showed some seriously gifted ability early on, and then has struggled since. I am just hoping that he can regain a bit of his early form. I dont think he will ever be a top pair, hell top 4 might be a huge stretch, but if he can play decent 3rd pair minutes and work well on the PP.. that will be great for the Flyers.

He has fantastic skating ability, and is pretty gifted offensively.. great low risk/ high reward signing.
- jak521

He had issues coming out of the lockout that sort of snowballed on him, then got into Vigneault's doghouse early and never got out. He did struggle in Nashville, but there's enough mitigating circumstances to roll the dice on Del Zotto rebounding.

So you'd say that Ghost already has top 4 skating a puck skills? If that's true, we're in a good spot with him if he only needs a year or two in the A to refine his game.
- Hextall271

He needs to show that he can handle the physical aspects of the game. It may not be fair to rush him. Probably a good idea to let him grow some more physically.

I think partially true, the picks we did have we used on forwards, and missed on the D picks we had...Getting a guy like Mussin is your 1st round pick and he is viable immediately and at 4-4.5M a year you are not overpaying for him, it just depends on how bad LA wants to keep him...and I am sure that would be established ahead of time by talking about a trade.

I saw the post on Carlson from WASH, that is interesting as well, just not sure how willing they would be to part with him...

Any other RFA/trade options out there? just not seeing much in the well for the Flyers to even consider without a setback as we wait and see with the group of D we have coming up...
- JW98FlyerFan

Paul Holmgren was Flyers GM from the 2007 draft thru 2013. During that time he made 3 second round selections. The Flyers trade for Pronger, and subsequent trades to fill the hole left by his injury, really left the Flyers with little systemic depth.

I'd rather see the Flyers keep the picks than offer sheet Muzzin. I like Muzzin, but I also don't think he's a legit top defenseman. He's good, but he's not the stud number one guy that the Flyers really need.

The UFA market is tepid. There's Mike Green, Marc Staal & Johnny Boychuk. Paul Martin is intriguing, but he's 33. At best he'd be a stop gap. Trading for what they need is going to be expensive, no way around that.

We all admit that those same 3 28+ players right now, can't anchor a defense to the level of building a cup caliber defense. Are they going to be able to in the future? So barring any future trades or free agent signings, who is the team and the fans looking towards in the future, to anchor and build the defense to a championship level?
- MJL

Our four very highly regarded D prospects. The days of trading for a Pronger are over, and the chances of getting one in free agency are close to zero.

Paul Holmgren was Flyers GM from the 2007 draft thru 2013. During that time he made 3 second round selections. The Flyers trade for Pronger, and subsequent trades to fill the hole left by his injury, really left the Flyers with little systemic depth.

I'd rather see the Flyers keep the picks than offer sheet Muzzin. I like Muzzin, but I also don't think he's a legit top defenseman. He's good, but he's not the stud number one guy that the Flyers really need.

The UFA market is tepid. There's Mike Green, Marc Staal & Johnny Boychuk. Paul Martin is intriguing, but he's 33. At best he'd be a stop gap. Trading for what they need is going to be expensive, no way around that.
- Jsaquella

Fair enough, I have not been big on Martin's game and have not seen Mike Green play consistently well since he signed his last contract...It appears patience will be the new word...

Here is to hoping for some AMac and MDZ magic this year...

Our four very highly regarded D prospects. The days of trading for a Pronger are over, and the chances of getting one in free agency are close to zero.
- Feanor

They're not even that highly regarded. It's possible one could be a stud but it's more likely that the best will top out a being an effective middle pairing guy. That's nothing to scoff at but nothing to write home about either. Time will tell, but I think we're all starting to put unrealistic expectations on this group.

As excited as I am about him, Ghost will have A LOT of growing up to do in the AHL this season. His skating and puck skills are NHL top-4 right now, but his defense and decision making (time-wise) need some major refining. He won't have nearly the same time he had in college, and he won't be able to use his speed and natural ability to dominate away from the puck. I think it's close to a full year in the AHL for him, maybe with a call-up a few times towards the end depending on his progression.
- jmatchett383

Someone will get tweaked and he'll be tearing it up in the AHL, they'll bring him up and he'll never go back.

Our four very highly regarded D prospects.
- Feanor

Exactly. So it's not a rebuild situation for the team as far as the defense is concerned?

No, it isn't a rebuild for the Flyers. Which is what you said. Playing a couple of young players in the top 6 of a defense /= rebuild.

They're not even that highly regarded. It's possible one could be a stud but it's more likely that the best will top out a being an effective middle pairing guy. That's nothing to scoff at but nothing to write home about either. Time will tell, but I think we're all starting to put unrealistic expectations on this group.
- NickTheKid87

Expecting that some of them can play in the NHL on the second or third pairings in their early 20s in not unrealistic. And they are highly regarded.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=729391

They're not even that highly regarded. It's possible one could be a stud but it's more likely that the best will top out a being an effective middle pairing guy. That's nothing to scoff at but nothing to write home about either. Time will tell, but I think we're all starting to put unrealistic expectations on this group.
- NickTheKid87

Funny thing about potential. Never know how that is going to pan out. I think the potential is there for Morin and Sanheim to be much more then middle pairing guys. But we'll see.

Fair enough, I have not been big on Martin's game and have not seen Mike Green play consistently well since he signed his last contract...It appears patience will be the new word...

Here is to hoping for some AMac and MDZ magic this year...
- JW98FlyerFan

Paul Martin is a very underrated defenseman. He's a very good player.

No, it isn't. Playing young players /= rebuild.



Expecting that some of them can play in the NHL on the second or third pairings in their early 20s in not unrealistic. And they are highly regarded.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=729391
- Feanor

Having the 55th and 58th ranked prospects isn't "highly" but I suppose this is semantics. Besides, this list is bias towards NHL readiness too and only the top few are expected to be studs.

Right now, Hockey's Future has assigned the following ratings:

Morin: 7.5B
Ghost: 7.5C
Sanheim: 7.5C
Alt: 7.0C
Hagg: 7.0C

Not bad at all but the Flyers are ranked 22 overall as a team. The chances of any of these guys hitting their upper limit of potential is less likely than them become average NHL players.

Funny thing about potential. Never know how that is going to pan out. I think the potential is there for Morin and Sanheim to be much more then middle pairing guys. But we'll see.
- MJL

I think there is without a doubt potential for Morin and Sanheim to be top pairing dmen but the chances are lower than them becoming middle pairing or worse. I'm not really worried about not having any of them become a "true" #1 because that's unlikely. I'm more worried that not enough will pan out to be anything more than a third pairing guy. If 3 or so become middle pairing guys, the Flyers could build around them and create a good mix.