Analytics: I've said it before, it's a tool in the arsenal. If Nolan doesn't use it others in the org will.


I like our lineup for tonight. Looks more like what our team will resemble.
- Buffalo-Sabres

Link? don't see one on sabres.com

Murray didn't even dismiss it though he just said he wasn't big on it. Then said if what his eyes see and the numbers match up great if not then there is a decision to make and then the numbers usually don't lie.

Just because he isn't Billy Bean doesn't mean Murray isn't smart about it. IMO this is just a way to get people talking about hockey before the season starts. It's a nonissue.
- Stripes77

What Murray said is exactly what the role of the analytics will be. A tool in the belt. We like player x, what are analytics saying about player x? They're saying he's a good player? Fine let's go ahead and pursue him then. They're saying he might not be as good as we think? Let's think about this a bit more. The idea that analytics being the primary force behind the decision-making process will ever happen is the wet dream of some people out there, but it will never happen. This pretty much sums up how I feel about anayltics movement: http://sbcpuckstorming.bl...-still-wont-tell-you.html

Relax. Pachla I do think you do a good job, and I can see that you spend a lot of time putting the work in. I am just bored and in a bad mood so I am trying to stir the pot. I thank you for taking the time to do these blogs and I do respect your opinion. It is just more fun for me if I pretend I don't. Keep up the good work. To say that you are a huge upgrade to Garth is the understatement of the year. Thank you for dong what you do Pachla. I would rather criticize you than anyone else.

Link? don't see one on sabres.com
- stashu

Vogl has it on twitter. I'm on my ipone so i cant link it. Looks like it includes Gionta, Moulson, Myers, Girgensons, Dalpe, Delaurias, Reinhart, Stewart, Grigorenko, Kaleta(yes 89, Patrick Kaleta) and Stafford.

Link? don't see one on sabres.com
- stashu

Moulson - Ennis - Staff
Dalpe - Girgensons - Gionta
Deslauriers - Reinhart - Stewart
Lemiuex - Grigorenko - Kaleta

Gorges - Myers
Mesz - Benoit
McCabe - Pysyk

Enroth
Lieuwen

To dismiss analytics is foollish. End of story.

Nolan is correct that to win you need better players. The thing is that analytics is an additional tool that can help to identify better players. As Murray admits, your eye can be fooled. Numbers don't lie.

Possession is not a new concept. People have always known possession was key. To win, you need to score goals. To score goals, you need the puck. It's definitely not rocket science. What's new is we now have a way of counting or measuring possession.

That doesn't mean possession is the be all, end all. It's one element of the game. There is also goaltending, shooting, special teams etc. There is no single magic bullet.

Often the analytics confirm what the eye sees. To listen to dinosaurs like Steve Simmons you would think analytics were saying Pavel Datsyuk is a terrible hockey player and that John Scott is an unheralded superstar. The reality is completely the opposite.

One value of analytics though is when the numbers don't match what the eye sees. It leads you to ask the important question of why? Player usage is a big factor. Teammates are a factor.

I think a big factor is many in hockey, and all sports, are not mathematical geniuses. Quite the opposite. The concept of statistical correlation is lost of them.

To dismiss analytics is foollish. End of story.

Nolan is correct that to win you need better players. The thing is that analytics is an additional tool that can help to identify better players. As Murray admits, your eye can be fooled. Numbers don't lie.

Possession is not a new concept. People have always known possession was key. To win, you need to score goals. To score goals, you need the puck. It's definitely not rocket science. What's new is we now have a way of counting or measuring possession.

That doesn't mean possession is the be all, end all. It's one element of the game. There is also goaltending, shooting, special teams etc. There is no single magic bullet.

Often the analytics confirm what the eye sees. To listen to dinosaurs like Steve Simmons you would think analytics were saying Pavel Datsyuk is a terrible hockey player and that John Scott is an unheralded superstar. The reality is completely the opposite.

One value of analytics though is when the numbers don't match what the eye sees. It leads you to ask the important question of why? Player usage is a big factor. Teammates are a factor.

I think a big factor is many in hockey, and all sports, are not mathematical geniuses. Quite the opposite. The concept of statistical correlation is lost of them.
- Zarny

Better players = better possession. I think that's what Nolan's point is essentially.

Guys like Tyler Ennis or Tyler Myers might not have great possession numbers but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that they are two good payers on an awful team.

Moulson - Ennis - Staff
Dalpe - Girgensons - Gionta
Deslauriers - Reinhart - Stewart
Lemiuex - Grigorenko - Kaleta

Gorges - Myers
Mesz - Benoit
McCabe - Pysyk

Enroth
Lieuwen
- JVince11

Thanks Vince, and you too Buffalo-Sabres. I don't really look at twitter other than a few of the TSN folks at deadlines.

How do you figure? He is known to get the most out of players that aren't necessarily on the right path.

I expect an unnecessary career type year for some players
- sbroads24

If this were true it would show.

Sabres are almost at the finish line of the crappy rebuilding process. Tank, take the pick, and then hire the real people to take the reigns. Nolan was a PR hire, nothing more nothing less (at least that is what he should be).

If this were true it would show.
- Ryan_Wilson

Ouch.

If this were true it would show.
- Ryan_Wilson

Thats totally unfair to Nolan though. He came into a bad situation worse by trades and injury. Traded Moulson, Miller, lost Stewart after 1.5 games. We limped to the end of the season our 10th string goalie.

Nicely done

Thats totally unfair to Nolan though. He came into a bad situation worse by trades and injury. Traded Moulson, Miller, lost Stewart after 1.5 games. We limped to the end of the season our 10th string goalie.
- Buffalo-Sabres

Enroth was better than Miller last year. Stewart isn't really that good ( http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=60174 ).

If this were true it would show.

Sabres are almost at the finish line of the crappy rebuilding process. Tank, take the pick, and then hire the real people to take the reigns. Nolan was a PR hire, nothing more nothing less (at least that is what he should be).
- Ryan_Wilson

You realize how many different players were here last year right?

Even going back to his Islander, and Sabre days. He got career years out of borderline NHL'ers. IMO he's the last person I want coaching a team full of players that have something to prove

Enroth was better than Miller last year. Stewart isn't really that good ( http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=60174 ).
- Ryan_Wilson

You are high

Enroth 4-17-5 .911%
Miller 15-22-3 .923%

Enroth 4-17-5 .911%
Miller 15-22-3 .923%
- sbroads24

Using the wrong metric.

EVSV% 2013-14

Enroth .929%

Miller .920%

Shorthanded save percentages wildly fluctuate year to year, they aren't reliable.

Goalie records are more reflective of team, not individual performance.

Enroth was better than Miller last year. Stewart isn't really that good ( http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=60174 ).
- Ryan_Wilson

Agreed... Stewart sucks.

Using the wrong metric.

EVSV% 2013-14

Enroth .929%

Miller .920%

Shorthanded save percentages wildly fluctuate year to year, they aren't reliable.

Goalie records are more reflective of team, not individual performance.
- Ryan_Wilson

Pick and choosing what "stat" to use to support your argument... that's nice.

When one stat says Enroth>Miller while 34 other say the opposite.


Stats have gone too far in sports these days...

To dismiss analytics is foollish. End of story.

Pavel Datsyuk is a terrible hockey player and that John Scott is an unheralded superstar.
- Zarny

Look for John Scott this year on the wing in San Jose with Couture and Pavelski, he's gonna light the lamp all year long. At least according to analytics....(just kidding.)

Yeah, puck possession is no secret...it's why Detroit has made the playoffs for so many years. Part Detroits/Babcocks system and the skill guys Datsyuk/Zett. to play it. They don't lead the league in hits and fights.

Look at Toronto, Burke's leftover "grit and truculence" and Randy Carlyles "tough to play against"...if they didn't have Kessel stealing games for them, their terrible possesion numbers would come back to haunt them. And they did at the end of last year.

What was Miller vs Enroth's stats for....

Even strength vs a teams top 2 lines on the Thursday games when the outside temperature was below 50 degrees and there was a raccoon within the 5 mile radius of the arena??

NOW THAT IS THE MOST TRUE STAT EVER!!!!

Pick and choosing what "stat" to use to support your argument... that's nice.

When one stat says Enroth>Miller while 34 other say the opposite.


Stats have gone too far in sports these days...
- JVince11

While I agree it can get ridiculous, what's the most fair way to compare goalies? Special teams stats aren't fair, so even strength and save % are the only good combination of stats - save % because it's individual rather than team based. A goalie can allow 4 goals per game and still rack up wins (thus be successful) if his team is scoring 5+

Using the wrong metric.

EVSV% 2013-14

Enroth .929%

Miller .920%

Shorthanded save percentages wildly fluctuate year to year, they aren't reliable.

Goalie records are more reflective of team, not individual performance.
- Ryan_Wilson

You are also comparing a guy who played 40+ games on the worst team in the league to a guy that played under 30. I'd be willing to wager you can find multiple examples of a backup with better numbers than a starter who takes a majority of the workload and played back to back nights on occasion.

Also, is this including Miller's stint in St. Louis? That would affect the comparison considering we have no sample of Enroth playing there.

Miller was and is the better goalie, this is an example of a certain statistic taken as an end all be all judgment on a player

You are also comparing a guy who played 40+ games on the worst team in the league to a guy that played under 30. I'd be willing to wager you can find multiple examples of a backup with better numbers than a starter who takes a majority of the workload and played back to back nights on occasion.

Also, is this including Miller's stint in St. Louis? That would affect the comparison considering we have no sample of Enroth playing there.

Miller was and is the better goalie, this is an example of a certain statistic taken as an end all be all judgment on a player
- sbroads24

You realize how many different players were here last year right?

Even going back to his Islander, and Sabre days. He got career years out of borderline NHL'ers. IMO he's the last person I want coaching a team full of players that have something to prove
- sbroads24

We had a record number of players in the Sabres uniform and we dressed like 11 goalies(the legend of Ryan Vinz). If you think Stewart sucks or not, he is a grown man compared to many of the kids we had out there last year. He would have helped Nolans cause.