- cabin

I've seen cars get hit in driveways a few times. True story.

What he said is true though. I don't remember hearing anyone say being in the minors too long ruined my career.

But case in point Luke Adam was up here too soon and never adjusted well. It could mean he is a career AHL player or just someone whose career was derailed by being up here too soon (or a coach mishandling him)
- Stripes77

Luke Adam's problems were because he wasn't good enough period. If a player has "it", he'll figure it out. Time in the minors may accelerate the process a bit, but if a player completely fails, it's not because he didn't get enough time in the AHL, it's because he never had what it took in the first place.

Okay, let me rephrase: you never hear "I wrecked my car" when I leave it in the driveway either.
- buffalofan19

There's still flawed logic in this rephrasing.

Luke Adam's problems were because he wasn't good enough period. If a player has "it", he'll figure it out. Time in the minors may accelerate the process a bit, but if a player completely fails, it's not because he didn't get enough time in the AHL, it's because he never had what it took in the first place.
- buffalofan19

His attitude is a big reason why he got sent down and has barely gotten called back up. The other reason is that he just can't keep up here. His skating is not good enough.

His attitude is a big reason why he got sent down and has barely gotten called back up. The other reason is that he just can't keep up here. His skating is not good enough.
- HonkFortheGoose

Exactly. And there's no "correct" amount of time in the AHL that would have fixed that problem.

Luke Adam's problems were because he wasn't good enough period. If a player has "it", he'll figure it out. Time in the minors may accelerate the process a bit, but if a player completely fails, it's not because he didn't get enough time in the AHL, it's because he never had what it took in the first place.
- buffalofan19

Rushing a kid up (if he isn't ready) is worse IMO than leaving him down an extra season.

Exactly. And there's no "correct" amount of time in the AHL that would have fixed that problem.
- buffalofan19

Yes and no. There's ways for players to adapt their game so that their skating isn't holding them back. But the player has to be willing to learn and adapt. The attitude issue with Adam held him back from doing that. Now he has the career AHL stigma attached to him and I don't think he'll ever shake it.

Yes and no. There's ways for players to adapt their game so that their skating isn't holding them back. But the player has to be willing to learn and adapt. The attitude issue with Adam held him back from doing that. Now he has the career AHL stigma attached to him and I don't think he'll ever shake it.
- HonkFortheGoose

Agreed. Some of the better players in the leagues history weren't speedsters out there. No I am not saying Luke Adam could have been a great player but he could at least have worked on other aspects of his game to be a solid 3rd liner.

Rushing a kid up (if he isn't ready) is worse IMO than leaving him down an extra season.
- Stripes77

Honestly, I think that it's really more of a player by player analysis than anything. Each player is going to react to things differently. Not every guy that gets sent down after having decent stint at the NHL level is going to react the same way that a guy like Pysyk did.

Just look at the difference in Adam and Pysyk and how they handled being sent back to Rochester. Adam sulked for the remainder of the season and put in a little effort as possible. Pysyk came out and said that he still felt there was plenty for him to learn there and he hadn't outgrown the league.

It's more of a case by case scenario than it seems.

Exactly. And there's no "correct" amount of time in the AHL that would have fixed that problem.
- buffalofan19

There is no standard to the rule in any case. There are always anomalies in every circumstance. However, a winning culture can make or break a player and keeping a player away from a losing atmosphere cannot hurt their development or develop bad habits.

Case in point, Reinhart would not be hurt by another year in Junior. It may not help him very much either, but it definitely wouldn't hurt him. The concept of winning is far more important than being in an atmosphere that players are walking on eggshells wondering when they will be traded.

Okay, let me rephrase: you never hear "I wrecked my car" when I leave it in the driveway either.
- buffalofan19

I wrecked my sisters car in the driveway once.

She decided to park behind me, it was snowing and windy. Got in never turned around and just backed up. My jeep was lifted at that time. went right on to the hood. {feel shame}

I wrecked my sisters car in the driveway once.

She decided to park behind me, it was snowing and windy. Got in never turned around and just backed up. My jeep was lifted at that time. went right on to the hood. {feel shame}
- ImThatGuy

"Leaving" it in the driveway implies that you never got in it and turned the ignition in the first place.

There is no standard to the rule in any case. There are always anomalies in every circumstance. However, a winning culture can make or break a player and keeping a player away from a losing atmosphere cannot hurt their development or develop bad habits.

Case in point, Reinhart would not be hurt by another year in Junior. It may not help him very much either, but it definitely wouldn't hurt him. The concept of winning is far more important than being in an atmosphere that players are walking on eggshells wondering when they will be traded.
- thatsapickle

I don't think that's going to be an issue this year. They're past that part of the rebuild. The vets that are here now are basically here for a few years. There's 2 or 3 guys that could get traded near the deadline. Stewart, Stafford, and Meszaros. And none of those guys have been pillars in the organization the way that Miller, Vanek and Pominville were.

The attitude in the locker room this year should be vastly different this year.

"Leaving" it in the driveway implies that you never got in it and turned the ignition in the first place.
- buffalofan19

I know, I just felt inclined to share my stupidity.

"Leaving" it in the driveway implies that you never got in it and turned the ignition in the first place.
- buffalofan19

But you could just as easily get in someone else's car and cause damage to your own in your own driveway as well.

I don't think that's going to be an issue this year. They're past that part of the rebuild. The vets that are here now are basically here for a few years. There's 2 or 3 guys that could get traded near the deadline. Stewart, Stafford, and Meszaros. And none of those guys have been pillars in the organization the way that Miller, Vanek and Pominville were.

The attitude in the locker room this year should be vastly different this year.
- HonkFortheGoose

I would like to think it will be better, but if the team is under-performing it is definitely a possibility. There are still questions about being able to score goals. Chemistry seems to be there with the Moulson-Ennis-Stafford line, which is reassuring. It will be interesting to see how it shakes up with the rest of the lineup. Goaltending is also an unsure in my mind. I think Enroth and Neuvirth are capable of having great years, but we have seen goaltenders have great years here and not have the record to show for it.

I would like to think it will be better, but if the team is under-performing it is definitely a possibility. There are still questions about being able to score goals. Chemistry seems to be there with the Moulson-Ennis-Stafford line, which is reassuring. It will be interesting to see how it shakes up with the rest of the lineup. Goaltending is also an unsure in my mind. I think Enroth and Neuvirth are capable of having great years, but we have seen goaltenders have great years here and not have the record to show for it.
- thatsapickle

It's hard to under-perform when it's a rebuild. The vets that were just brought in knew exactly what was going on here. Yes, they would like to make the playoffs, but nobody is realistically expecting that. Plus, a good portion of them have some sort of NTC/NMC anyway.

But you could just as easily get in someone else's car and cause damage to your own in your own driveway as well.
- HonkFortheGoose

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. I just needed to kill another hour or so at work. I succeeded.

I don't think that's going to be an issue this year. They're past that part of the rebuild. The vets that are here now are basically here for a few years. There's 2 or 3 guys that could get traded near the deadline. Stewart, Stafford, and Meszaros. And none of those guys have been pillars in the organization the way that Miller, Vanek and Pominville were.

The attitude in the locker room this year should be vastly different this year.
- HonkFortheGoose

Anybody with any real trade value, other than young prospects who were never going to be moved in the first place, is now gone, except maybe Moulson, who has a no trade clause.

Anybody with any real trade value, other than young prospects who were never going to be moved in the first place, is now gone, except maybe Moulson, who has a no trade clause.
- buffalofan19

I could see a team looking at Stafford and/or Stewart if they are playing well and a top-9 winger goes down. Anything is truly possible. Hell, Neuvirth could get a call placed if he is doing well. Murray knows how to get the value he wants.

John Vogl @BuffNewsVogl

Sabres' Nolan:"I’ve never heard one person say, ‘We left them too long in the minors,’ but you always hear, 'We brought them up too quick.'"


You also never hear "I got into a car accident when I left my car in my driveway" either.
- buffalofan19

He's right. Especially for this current team.

I have changed my opinion on this topic. I used to agree with you. But after last year and hearing what a lot of the players had to say changed how I thought about it.

Having a stable environment here and in Rochester is better for this team long term.

I could see a team looking at Stafford and/or Stewart if they are playing well and a top-9 winger goes down. Anything is truly possible. Hell, Neuvirth could get a call placed if he is doing well. Murray knows how to get the value he wants.
- thatsapickle

They could very well look at them. The return, however, isn't going to make you break into a happy dance (unless you really, really, really want to see one or both of them gone).

He's right. Especially for this current team.

I have changed my opinion on this topic. I used to agree with you. But after last year and hearing what a lot of the players had to say changed how I thought about it.

Having a stable environment here and in Rochester is better for this team long term.
- sbroads24

I'm still don't buy it. The things the players have said essentially amount to this:

"We're still losing, but dammit do we feel better about ourselves!"

Moral victories hold no bearing to me.

They could very well look at them. The return, however, isn't going to make you break into a happy dance (unless you really, really, really want to see one or both of them gone).
- buffalofan19

I don't think the return will be great, but if it is for the betterment of the team (which I think Murray knows what will work) then I am all for it. I don't expect 1st round picks or highly touted prospects. Murray has his eyes open on prospects like Delauries and Fasching. If he wants something, he will get it or the other team will not get the players they want and that's totally okay with me.

I truly see Stafford being offered an extension.

I'm still don't buy it. The things the players have said essentially amount to this:

"We're still losing, but dammit do we feel better about ourselves!"

Moral victories hold no bearing to me.
- buffalofan19

It's not that though. Case in point Grigorenko. There was no clear cut development path with him. He was part of Darcy's poor attempt at appeasing the fans during the rebuild and it ended up hurting his development. Now I agree, if Grigorenko is going to end up a good player it will happen regardless. However I think rushing him set him back at least a year.

For guys like Reinhart, Risto, Armia or Pysyk, putting them in the AHL is sending a message that they still have stuff to work on and it gives them ampile opportunity to do so in the AHL while the Sabres lose regardless.

Edit: I know Reinhart can't go to the AHL