You know henceforth that will stick as your nickname on here, right?
- Tomahawk

I'm in

I'm in
- Giroux_Is_God

Are you AllInForSweetcheeks?

Are you AllInForSweetcheeks?
- Tomahawk

10/10

Are you AllInForSweetcheeks?
- Tomahawk

Well, he wouldn't be the first, nor will he be the last

Really, the MacDonald situation is not complicated. He's not strong enough or savvy enough to deal with other teams best forwards, and he's not going to generate a lot of shots on his own. So if you want to improve his Corsi stats you put him on a pairing that doesn't have to play against other teams best players, and where the other defensman is a strong offensive presence at ES and takes lots of shots.


- Feanor

It's not quite so simple. Part of what makes Streit successful is having solid defensive defenseman accompanying him. While I think Grossmann has been reduced to a lumbering shell of his old self, I still think he's a better fit with Streit than MacDonald.

A big part of MacDonald's poor Corsi numbers is related to how he plays on the ice - not who the opponent is. He's too soft at the blueline and allows opponents to easily carry the puck in the zone. His Corsi numbers were bad when he played first pairing minutes for the NYI, and also bad playing with Luke Schenn on the Flyers.

All that being said, the Flyers don't have a good solution to replace Timonen on Coburn's left side. Pick your poison. Go with MacDonald and hope Coburn can help mitigate his shortcomings, or go with a guy like Del Zotto, who looks lost in his own zone, but offers a much higher offensive capability.

Really, the MacDonald situation is not complicated. He's not strong enough or savvy enough to deal with other teams best forwards, and he's not going to generate a lot of shots on his own. So if you want to improve his Corsi stats you put him on a pairing that doesn't have to play against other teams best players, and where the other defensman is a strong offensive presence at ES and takes lots of shots.


- Feanor

Grossmann-Coburn
MacDonald-Streit
Del Zotto-Schenn

It's not quite so simple. Part of what makes Streit successful is having solid defensive defenseman accompanying him. While I think Grossmann has been reduced to a lumbering shell of his old self, I still think he's a better fit with Streit than MacDonald.

A big part of MacDonald's poor Corsi numbers is related to how he plays on the ice - not who the opponent is. He's too soft at the blueline and allows opponents to easily carry the puck in the zone. His Corsi numbers were bad when he played first pairing minutes for the NYI, and also bad playing with Luke Schenn on the Flyers.

All that being said, the Flyers don't have a good solution to replace Timonen on Coburn's left side. Pick your poison. Go with MacDonald and hope Coburn can help mitigate his shortcomings, or go with a guy like Del Zotto, who looks lost in his own zone, but offers a much higher offensive capability.
- bradleyc4

Gotta roll the dice with Coburn-MacDonald, to me -- he's signed for half a decade. He's gotta be able to handle some of this burden, or the Flyers have to know definitively if he can't

It's not quite so simple. Part of what makes Streit successful is having solid defensive defenseman accompanying him. While I think Grossmann has been reduced to a lumbering shell of his old self, I still think he's a better fit with Streit than MacDonald.

A big part of MacDonald's poor Corsi numbers is related to how he plays on the ice - not who the opponent is. He's too soft at the blueline and allows opponents to easily carry the puck in the zone. His Corsi numbers were bad when he played first pairing minutes for the NYI, and also bad playing with Luke Schenn on the Flyers.

All that being said, the Flyers don't have a good solution to replace Timonen on Coburn's left side. Pick your poison. Go with MacDonald and hope Coburn can help mitigate his shortcomings, or go with a guy like Del Zotto, who looks lost in his own zone, but offers a much higher offensive capability.
- bradleyc4

By far the biggest part of MacDonald's poor Corsi numbers are the situations he played in, and how he was used. If you put MacDonald on LA's 2nd pair, his Coris numbers would be pretty good most likely. Which would be evidence of how much Corsi is a team stat, and not an individual stat. MacDonald being too soft at the blueline is ridiculously overblown.
Guess what, if the Flyers team defense and overall 5 on 5 play doesn't improve, the Flyers defenseman's Corsi numbers are going to take a beating.
And a big part of what helps a player like Striet's Corsi numbers, is time spent on pure offensive situations, moved away from his normal pair and matchups, and moved up to play offensive starts with Giroux and Voracek.

A consistently good two-way player can survive overwhelmingly negative team effects and tough situations... see: Sean Couturier, Mikael Backlund

Gotta roll the dice with Coburn-MacDonald, to me -- he's signed for half a decade. He's gotta be able to handle some of this burden, or the Flyers have to know definitively if he can't
- AllInForFlyers

I'm going to go on record right now and say I don't believe MacDonald can handle playing top minutes against top lines, to the point of being effective enough for this team to be a contender doing so. Unless this team drastically improves it's overall team defense, or that MacDonald is paired with a true top #1 defenseman, which this team doesn't have. He's a #3 2nd pair puck moving defenseman in my opinion.

I'm going to go on record right now and say I don't believe MacDonald can handle playing top minutes against top lines, to the point of being effective enough for this team to be a contender doing so. Unless this team drastically improves it's overall team defense, or that MacDonald is paired with a true top #1 defenseman, which this team doesn't have. He's a #3 2nd pair puck moving defenseman in my opinion.
- MJL

That's fine -- you're entitled to your opinion. You watch the games, just like everybody else.

Would you go Grossmann-Coburn, then? With Streit-MacDonald?

That's fine -- you're entitled to your opinion. You watch the games, just like everybody else.

Would you go Grossmann-Coburn, then? With Streit-MacDonald?
- AllInForFlyers

I don't think it would change anything. I don't see a Grossmann Coburn pairing as ideal either. Not enough puck movement and transition game there.
The Flyers are going to have to be a team that is very strong defensively, very strong positionally and put a lot of pressure on the puck in all 3 zones, in order to make their defense work to a high enough level to be more then just a playoff team.

The only thing I can think of when I see that is Sweetfeet....


- Giroux_Is_God

That movie is so unbelievably bad. My son watched it repeatedly for years. UGH!!!

I don't think it would change anything. I don't see a Grossmann Coburn pairing as ideal either. Not enough puck movement and transition game there.
The Flyers are going to have to be a team that is very strong defensively, very strong positionally and put a lot of pressure on the puck in all 3 zones, in order to make their defense work to a high enough level to be more then just a playoff team.
- MJL

We touched on that a little bit last night -- that, to me, that means the fourth line is going to have to be able to truly defend, not just hit/bring energy, in order to hide some of the defensive weaknesses they have with Lecavalier's line and, occasionally, Giroux's

Grossmann-Coburn
MacDonald-Streit
Del Zotto-Schenn
- SuperSchennBros

Grossmann will not be getting top pairing minutes. He can't handle that when healthy. He isn't going to handle it coming off ankle surgery.

AMac Coburn
Del Zotto Schenn
Streit Grossmann

That movie is so unbelievably bad. My son watched it repeatedly for years. UGH!!!
- mayorofangrytown

I've seen it twice. I always thought it was aight, but I can see why you'd want to smash things after time #6

We touched on that a little bit last night -- that, to me, that means the fourth line is going to have to be able to truly defend, not just hit/bring energy, in order to hide some of the defensive weaknesses they have with Lecavalier's line and, occasionally, Giroux's
- AllInForFlyers

Guess what, there isn't a 4th line that the Flyers can put on the ice, that will make up for 2 of the Flyers top lines, if those 2 lines don't play better defensively. It will certainly help, but this needs to be from the top line down. And quite frankly, the veterans and leaders of this team, such as Giroux and Lecavalier, need to lead the way. I'm not going expect either player to become defensive stalwarts. But both can certainly be better defensively. Lecavalier especially.

Guess what, there isn't a 4th line that the Flyers can put on the ice, that will make up for 2 of the Flyers top lines, if those 2 lines don't play better defensively. It will certainly help, but this needs to be from the top line down. And quite frankly, the veterans and leaders of this team, such as Giroux and Lecavalier, need to lead the way. I'm not going expect either player to become defensive stalwarts. But both can certainly be better defensively. Lecavalier especially.
- MJL

Agreed -- Lecavalier has to be more diligent. He has to be, at this stage of this career, because I don't see any way he's going to outscore his competition at ES, so he's got to understand that he can't get scored on repeatedly.

But I do think a stronger fourth line would help some of those neutral zone starts that Vinny's line is gonna have to get, while being able to start some in the defensive zone where, no matter how Berube tries to play it, Couturier's gonna get a ton of starts

It's not quite so simple. Part of what makes Streit successful is having solid defensive defenseman accompanying him. While I think Grossmann has been reduced to a lumbering shell of his old self, I still think he's a better fit with Streit than MacDonald.

A big part of MacDonald's poor Corsi numbers is related to how he plays on the ice - not who the opponent is. He's too soft at the blueline and allows opponents to easily carry the puck in the zone. His Corsi numbers were bad when he played first pairing minutes for the NYI, and also bad playing with Luke Schenn on the Flyers.
- bradleyc4

But they were great when playing with Mark Streit.

Streit's numbers when paired with Grosmann were much, much worse.

Agreed -- Lecavalier has to be more diligent. He has to be, at this stage of this career, because I don't see any way he's going to outscore his competition at ES, so he's got to understand that he can't get scored on repeatedly.

But I do think a stronger fourth line would help some of those neutral zone starts that Vinny's line is gonna have to get, while being able to start some in the defensive zone where, no matter how Berube tries to play it, Couturier's gonna get a ton of starts
- AllInForFlyers

Agreed. Don't want to have a 4th line that gets hemmed in for a lot of shifts. Leading to too many D zone starts, for other lines. Play more in the neutral zone and O zone.

But they were great when playing with Mark Streit.

Streit's numbers when paired with Grosmann were much, much worse.
- Feanor

What kind of situations do you think Streit was playing in, when he was moved away from his regular partner, in Grossmann?

Jordan Staal expected to miss 3-4 months. Good thing he be healthy in time to fulfill the other 8 years of that contract.

The flyers are behind the curve:

http://www.tsn.ca/flames-...ning-how-to-fight-1.91253

Also, the word truculence is a bit overused lately, IMO

The flyers are behind the curve:

http://www.tsn.ca/flames-...ning-how-to-fight-1.91253

Also, the word truculence is a bit overused lately, IMO
- funmaster18

Where is Dean Youngblood's dad when you need him?

Honestly though, could you imagine the reaction from the league if it were Berube doing this?

The flyers are behind the curve:

http://www.tsn.ca/flames-...ning-how-to-fight-1.91253

Also, the word truculence is a bit overused lately, IMO
- funmaster18

No need for anyone else to know how to fight, the Flyers have Rosehill.