i am not talking about diaz or engleland. engeland is a terrible contract. beyond terrible.

why trade for a 7th. getting an asset back is better than not getting one. correct he could be a better asset later or stay there. then you get noting.

my point all along is no other teams were lining up for his services if he was a legit nhl player. the flyers always do right by guys in the orginization. so i doubt they were playing any hardball if a eal was there to be made do you?
- rinaldo

Why trade an asset for a 7th rounder if it could be worth a 3rd rounder in a year or two? Or if he can return and play a solid role for the team?

Rafael Diaz is a legitimate NHL player. He had to sign a PTO to go to a NHL camp. Teams were not beating his door down, either. Because he's a small, third pair guy, very similar to Gustafsson.

We don't know if the Flyers got offers for Gus, because he signed with the KHL before the season really ended. So to say there was no interest may not be correct.

It wasn't about hardball, Gus wanted to play. He knew he wouldn't here and then he got a good KHL offer and playing time. He just did what was best for him to play.

Here is my take on the enforcer/13th forward roll. Using Rosehill as an example he knows his roll, can skate and is not a terrible hockey player. Now if you want a more skilled player in the "13th" forward roll why would he sign here if that is what his roll would be. He would probably get more chances somewhere else. Also you don't want to put one of your younger players there because you want them playing and developing. Rosehill can spot in for a game or two, can play in a physicall game like with Boston or Anaheim and is ok with his roll. That is tough to find in a player.
- J35Bacher

He's an upgrade over Shelley, that's for sure.

But I think people are wondering why you couldn't have a guy like Leino/Penner/Halpern/etc . in that role. Guys who can had for league minimum on 1-year "prove it to me" deals.

Not many cheapshots dolled out against Toronto last year. Orr is an every game presence who will not hesitate to go after anyone who touches Kessel, JVR, etc. A true enforcer.

Rosehill is cut from the same cloth, but Chief doesnt dress him as much as he could/should.

I understand your point, just disagree. I think the enforcer who can skate reasonably well like Rosehill should dress every game. This is the Philadelphia Flyers after all.
- acd513

And Toronto made the playoff last year?

No, they missed. Teams like LA and Chicago, who didn't dress a goon regularly, went to the conference final and won a Stanley Cup. The Rangers, who didn't dress a goon (they had agitators like Carcillo & Dorsett, who can actually play a bit) went to the SCF.

You need toughness, but if you're dressing a guy who can't play, you are making your team weak.

Berube says Orange Jesus also skated yesterday

And Toronto made the playoff last year?

No, they missed. Teams like LA and Chicago, who didn't dress a goon regularly, went to the conference final and won a Stanley Cup. The Rangers, who didn't dress a goon (they had agitators like Carcillo & Dorsett, who can actually play a bit) went to the SCF.

You need toughness, but if you're dressing a guy who can't play, you are making your team weak.
- Jsaquella

Truth. In Chicago's case, they had Bollig and still got rid of him this summer even though he had 7 goals and 14 pts in 82 games playing limited minutes.

And Toronto made the playoff last year?

No, they missed. Teams like LA and Chicago, who didn't dress a goon regularly, went to the conference final and won a Stanley Cup. The Rangers, who didn't dress a goon (they had agitators like Carcillo & Dorsett, who can actually play a bit) went to the SCF.

You need toughness, but if you're dressing a guy who can't play, you are making your team weak.
- Jsaquella

Exactly
I like a good fight now and then, but not the staged crap. I much rather have guys like Holmgren, Bridgman, Wilson, Tocchet, Brashear, Simmonds etc... guys that can certainly fight and fight damn well, but they all could play as well.

Berube says Orange Jesus also skated yesterday
- Jsaquella

My username is relevant here

And Toronto made the playoff last year?

No, they missed. Teams like LA and Chicago, who didn't dress a goon regularly, went to the conference final and won a Stanley Cup. The Rangers, who didn't dress a goon (they had agitators like Carcillo & Dorsett, who can actually play a bit) went to the SCF.

You need toughness, but if you're dressing a guy who can't play, you are making your team weak.
- Jsaquella

What about Thornton and Westgarth in 2011 and 2012?

Edit: Westgarth didn't play in the playoffs. Kyle Clifford is who I was thinking of.

And Toronto made the playoff last year?

No, they missed. Teams like LA and Chicago, who didn't dress a goon regularly, went to the conference final and won a Stanley Cup. The Rangers, who didn't dress a goon (they had agitators like Carcillo & Dorsett, who can actually play a bit) went to the SCF.

You need toughness, but if you're dressing a guy who can't play, you are making your team weak.
- Jsaquella

Teams with depth and toughness throughout will trump teams that need a goon to provide the toughness. I don't think the Flyers even need the goon for that either. Rinaldo a plenty good agitator. I would prefer him as the 13th forward have a more skilled 4th line regular or do something akin to a platoon.

He's an upgrade over Shelley, that's for sure.

But I think people are wondering why you couldn't have a guy like Leino/Penner/Halpern/etc . in that role. Guys who can had for league minimum on 1-year "prove it to me" deals.
- jmatchett383

But why would they sign a prove it deal when they most likely will play a 13th forward roll? I would like a guy like that but where is the benefit for them. They would want more playing time to prove it.

But why would they sign a prove it deal when they most likely will play a 13th forward roll? I would like a guy like that but where is the benefit for them. They would want more playing time to prove it.
- J35Bacher

Because you can let them battle for a spot in the bottom-6. Then a guy like Rinaldo can be your 13th.

What about Thornton and Westgarth in 2011 and 2012?
- jmatchett383

Thornton's career year was in 2011 - 10 goals and 10 assists. +8 for what that stat is worth. Westgarth only played 25 regular season games in 2012 and none in the playoffs.

Either way, this is oversimplifying. The 2011 Bruins and 2012 Kings were great teams; forward depth, defensive depth, stellar goaltending. The "enforcer" was irrelevant to a great extent for them.

Rosehill is a " smart" goon. He can skate, and he is a great fighter who picks his spots very well. There was a few games last year when this team was down and he went out and pounded someone to give his team some life! When he fights... He wins. That can motivate a team very easily
- 3flyerkids

Do you think Rosehill was always a "smart" goon? In 08-09 with Leafs NHL and AHL duties, he racked up 275 PIM. I assume all those minutes weren't smart. He's 29 now and experienced. This experience helps with picking spots, and fighting.

My point is that Goon's need ice time and experience just like a young goalie, defenseman, forward. Stortini may develop into a Rosehill. Rosehill is a known quantity to the coaching staff. Right now Stortini is trying to show his skills, aka fighting. It is preseason and forced. I don't stress a misplaced fight (in preseason). I'd also be nice if he developed some other skill, like a good defensive 4th liner.

Because you can let them battle for a spot in the bottom-6. Then a guy like Rinaldo can be your 13th.
- jmatchett383

I agree. I see your point. But do you think there agent is advising them to sign that deal and maybe battle it out for fourth line minutes or 13th forward roll. They will wait for injuries to happen or better offers from overseas. That is why I am ok with Rosehill or Rinaldo as the 13th forward. They can play thier roll, are cheap, could be sent down if needed and seem to be liked by their teammates.

Do you think Rosehill was always a "smart" goon? In 08-09 with Leafs NHL and AHL duties, he racked up 275 PIM. I assume all those minutes weren't smart. He's 29 now and experienced. This experience helps with picking spots, and fighting.

My point is that Goon's need ice time and experience just like a young goalie, defenseman, forward. Stortini may develop into a Rosehill. Rosehill is a known quantity to the coaching staff. Right now Stortini is trying to show his skills, aka fighting. It is preseason and forced. I don't stress a misplaced fight (in preseason). I'd also be nice if he developed some other skill, like a good defensive 4th liner.
- leon neon

Stortini is also 29. He's not a very good fighter. Willing, yes, but not especially good. Against established heavyweights he's actually pretty bad.

Thornton's career year was in 2011 - 10 goals and 10 assists. +8 for what that stat is worth. Westgarth only played 25 regular season games in 2012 and none in the playoffs.

Either way, this is oversimplifying. The 2011 Bruins and 2012 Kings were great teams; forward depth, defensive depth, stellar goaltending. The "enforcer" was irrelevant to a great extent for them.
- NickTheKid87

I dont think Scott Thronton is in the same class as a guy like Westgarth. Thronton can actually play a bit of hockey.

Why trade an asset for a 7th rounder if it could be worth a 3rd rounder in a year or two? Or if he can return and play a solid role for the team?

Rafael Diaz is a legitimate NHL player. He had to sign a PTO to go to a NHL camp. Teams were not beating his door down, either. Because he's a small, third pair guy, very similar to Gustafsson.

We don't know if the Flyers got offers for Gus, because he signed with the KHL before the season really ended. So to say there was no interest may not be correct.

It wasn't about hardball, Gus wanted to play. He knew he wouldn't here and then he got a good KHL offer and playing time. He just did what was best for him to play.
- Jsaquella

That is why I originally asked Bill about his thoughts on him...I think with some work and growth, he could still be one of those guys that bridges the gap between the vets and the young guys...he just needed ice time and not pressbox time when he made a mistake...I think carrying 100 Dmen last year hurt his growth...if Chief had to use him and couldn't send him packing each time, things may have been different...

I agree. I see your point. But do you think there agent is advising them to sign that deal and maybe battle it out for fourth line minutes or 13th forward roll. They will wait for injuries to happen or better offers from overseas. That is why I am ok with Rosehill or Rinaldo as the 13th forward. They can play thier roll, are cheap, could be sent down if needed and seem to be liked by their teammates.
- J35Bacher

Being as their only offers now as between nothing and camp tryouts, I'm sure anything surefire is advised.

Sam Carchidi @BroadStBull · 13m
Berube optimistic Giroux will play in a preseason game or more. Says he skated on his own yesterday.

Stortini is also 29. He's not a very good fighter. Willing, yes, but not especially good. Against established heavyweights he's actually pretty bad.
- jmatchett383

He looks like a drunk dude who picked a fight with a bouncer. Sloppy, all over the place, and when he lands a punch its usually the the inside of his fist.

Unless of course the guy is being restrained.

Do you think Rosehill was always a "smart" goon? In 08-09 with Leafs NHL and AHL duties, he racked up 275 PIM. I assume all those minutes weren't smart. He's 29 now and experienced. This experience helps with picking spots, and fighting.

My point is that Goon's need ice time and experience just like a young goalie, defenseman, forward. Stortini may develop into a Rosehill. Rosehill is a known quantity to the coaching staff. Right now Stortini is trying to show his skills, aka fighting. It is preseason and forced. I don't stress a misplaced fight (in preseason). I'd also be nice if he developed some other skill, like a good defensive 4th liner.
- leon neon

Please omit... I assumed Stortini was young - didn't realize that Stortini was 29 as well. Trade him for a bag of pucks.

And Toronto made the playoff last year?

No, they missed. Teams like LA and Chicago, who didn't dress a goon regularly, went to the conference final and won a Stanley Cup. The Rangers, who didn't dress a goon (they had agitators like Carcillo & Dorsett, who can actually play a bit) went to the SCF.

You need toughness, but if you're dressing a guy who can't play, you are making your team weak.
- Jsaquella

Dwight King can take on anybody in the league and Brandon Bollig is an enforcer.

Rosehill and Rinaldo on the same line isnt the smartest move.

Teams get up for and go after the Flyers more than any other team in the league. May as well be ready.

Stortini is also 29. He's not a very good fighter. Willing, yes, but not especially good. Against established heavyweights he's actually pretty bad.
- jmatchett383

Yeah, just saw that... I thought he was younger.

Being as their only offers now as between nothing and camp tryouts, I'm sure anything surefire is advised.
- jmatchett383

I can't say as i don't know what info agents might have. They might be waiting for the right chance. It is easy for us to say "well they should just take whatever is presented to them" but they might have info we don't.

Dwight King can take on anybody in the league and Brandon Bollig is an enforcer.
- acd513

huh?