Man CBJ is in a bad way. RJ shows no signs of budging and Horton has no timetable for a return from a degenerative disc disorder. They might really end up kicking themselves for taking Hartnell's longer deal.
- hereticpride

Right now, they might need Hartnell's offense.

Right now, they might need Hartnell's offense.
- Jsaquella

I think they will be disappointed.

It is. And that's my point.

People now are clamoring(not necessarily you) for Bobby Ryan. Well, they had a guy who is younger and out producing Ryan and traded him away for Luke Schenn.

Had they been more patient with JvR, there'd be no calling for Ryan to be signed as a free agent
- Jsaquella

True. Although I never liked JVR anyway. I dont like his style of play. Only time I liked him was the first couple of games against Boston in the playoffs in which we were ultimately swept. The jury is still out on L.Schenn.

I think they will be disappointed.
- MBFlyerfan

Agreed. No Giroux to dish him the puck.....

It wasn't really meant as a critique, just a statement of facts.

The Flyers traded those guys away and still managed to be a contending or competitive team for much of the last couple decades.

I'm simply pointing out that Hextall seems to be more a proponent of being patient with first rounders and other prospects than his predecessors.
- Jsaquella

Yeah. I agree with what he's doing. I have more faith in Hextall taking the conservative approach. He doesn't seem like the type who would get overly excited about 1 good preseason game.

Remember when the Flyers almost kept Laughton as an 18 year old? It was clearly the right decision to send him back

Heck, you put Simmonds on a line with Getzlaf and Perry and give him time on the top pp unit and he scores 35, easy.
- BiggE

Ryan wasn't seeing regular PP time with Getzlaf and Perry. If you really want to break things down Ryan often saw second PP unit time so Selanne could get first unit time. Getzlaf has been injured in recent years (Not much last season). Getzlaf and Perry were main stays together, Ryan wasn't.

Right now, they might need Hartnell's offense.
- Jsaquella

Without RJ I dont see him putting up big numbers though. Much like him and G.

Without RJ I dont see him putting up big numbers though. Much like him and G.
- hereticpride

Hartnell will struggle to even score 20 goals without Giroux. Count on it.

To be fair Ryan played through much of last season with a nagging injury. But I see your point.
- hereticpride

Yes, he did. He's better than 23 goals. I'm not knocking that or ignoring it. But I feel that Read or Simmonds in a role like Ryan's would either match his numbers or come really close.

It's not a dislike of Ryan, it's a dislike of "Oh we need this big name player because he's a big name" when you have guys on the roster who can likely do what he's doing.

I think if Schenn plays all year with Giroux and Voracek, he could probably score close to 30 goals, too.

Its not even close to being UNQUESTIONABLY anything. They aren't excuses, they are facts.
- MBFlyerfan

No they're not.

Right now Bobby is unquestionably the better goal scorer.
- SuperSchennBros

You might want to check the SOG totals and SH%'s between Simmer and Ryan... they're remarkably similar over the past 3+ seasons.

Ryan wasn't seeing regular PP time with Getzlaf and Perry. If you really want to break things down Ryan often saw second PP unit time so Selanne could get first unit time. Getzlaf has been injured in recent years (Not much last season). Getzlaf and Perry were main stays together, Ryan wasn't.
- SuperSchennBros

No, he wasn't. Read isn't seeing regular PP time with anybody.

Yes, he did. He's better than 23 goals. I'm not knocking that or ignoring it. But I feel that Read or Simmonds in a role like Ryan's would either match his numbers or come really close.

It's not a dislike of Ryan, it's a dislike of "Oh we need this big name player because he's a big name" when you have guys on the roster who can likely do what he's doing.

I think if Schenn plays all year with Giroux and Voracek, he could probably score close to 30 goals, too.
- Jsaquella

B. Schenn looks pretty good this year so far. I think 30 goals could happen for sure.

It's not a list of excuses. Ryan played with Getzlaff and Perry and scored 30 + goals. He came over to Ottawa and played on a top line with Turris and MacArthur and scored 1 more goal than Read did in a shutdown line role and fewer than Simmonds did in a second line role.

You can't just say one guy scored more goals and claim he's the better scorer. You have to look at context and the role he played. Read scoring 22 goals in his role is a lot more impressive than Ryan scoring 23 in his role.
- Jsaquella

And you can't just say well he played with Getzlaf and Perry as if that's the whole story. It isn't.

Hartnell will struggle to even score 20 goals without Giroux. Count on it.
- GOA88

Hartnell has scored 20 goals, pretty much every year of his career, with and without Giroux.

Man CBJ is in a bad way. RJ shows no signs of budging and Horton has no timetable for a return from a degenerative disc disorder. They might really end up kicking themselves for taking Hartnell's longer deal.
- hereticpride

If Horton's crocked then they really need Hartnell. Horton's contract makes Vinny's look great.

Hartnell has scored 20 goals, pretty much every year of his career, with and without Giroux.
- Jsaquella

He also was'nt 32 years old on the quick decline....

No they're not.
- SuperSchennBros

Well, just because you say it is unquestionable doesn't make it even remotely so. And, yes, they unquestionably are.

No, he wasn't. Read isn't seeing regular PP time with anybody.
- Jsaquella

Simmonds is though, with Claude Giroux.

Well, just because you say it is unquestionable doesn't make it even remotely so. And, yes, they unquestionably are.
- MBFlyerfan

No they're not and I've already stated why.

Well, just because you say it is unquestionable doesn't make it even remotely so. And, yes, they unquestionably are.
- MBFlyerfan

litrilly

just sayin...

If Horton's crocked then they really need Hartnell. Horton's contract makes Vinny's look great.
- Feanor

Horton had a bit of an injury history before he even got to Boston, let alone what sort of condition (from a wear and tear standpoint) his body is in now.

litrilly

just sayin...


- BiggE

Are you questioning me?

And you can't just say well he played with Getzlaf and Perry as if that's the whole story. It isn't.
- SuperSchennBros

I'm not. But he did play primarily with Getzlaff and Perry at ES. He also saw some time on the first PP unit with them. The usage between Simmonds and Read and Ryan is starkly different and saying that Ryan is unquestionably the better goal scorer is wrong, because Ryan has had better opportunities to score than both Simmonds and Read, simply because of useage.

But if you want to just use goals scored, fine. Simmonds has outscored Ryan the last two seasons by a 44-34 margin. Read has scored 1 goal fewer in the same time frame.

In other words, Simmonds has outscored the unquestionably better goal scorer and Read has just one fewer over the past two years.

Simmonds is though, with Claude Giroux.
- SuperSchennBros

And he's outscored Ryan the past two seasons, with a 9 goal margin.