That's a fair point but that's why I say let's give them the Benny of the doubt one more year here.
- JoeRussomanno

Why not move on and give fresh blood an opportunity? Let Laughton center the 4th line, with two decent linemates, so he's not stuck dragging Rinaldo or Rosehill around every night for 6 minutes.

He's likely to make the team now, and he'll get to play on an energy line with poor players. Welcome to the NHL kid. You had more talented linemates in Junior, but go out and wow us!

I applaud your avatar, but I think that Cimmerian has more sound logic than you. That's like saying the Capitals were going to all become goons and cheap shot artists when Dale Hunter was their coach, or that they'd all become world-class passers where Adam Oates was their coach.
- jmatchett383

Cause everything is black and white to you with no gray.

So a Ryan Getzlaf plus a player who throws cheap elbows and jumps other teams' superstars all while whining to the refs constantly? Sign me up!
- jmatchett383

Minus all the stupid stuff (and some of the meanness)... of course.

Dat toe drag...

My ability to watch the games...didn't say he was blowing everyone away with his progress, but I think there are bigger dogs for the lack of "developing" L Schenn, Coots, Laughton (inability to break onto the big club)...lots of guys who have "high upside" just haven't been there all the time yet, and possess a higher skill set than a career 4th liner in a system that has him play as a human wrecking ball...

my thought is that most of the kids that don't make the NHL is that they lack what Zac does have, the heart and drive to try and make himself better, skill gets you in the door...work ethic makes you elite...only time will tell if he can learn, if not he will be a career AHL'r...and nothing lost by trying him out this season to see if he can grow at a very low cost to the overall team...
- JW98FlyerFan

I think it's the other way around, honestly.

And if you think a 19-year-old not being able to crack the roster is the sign of "not developing", maybe you and Tim P should have lunch together sometime.

I believe the team that played harder and more physical won not necessarily more skilled, knocked us out of the playoffs last year.
- JoeRussomanno

I think both teams competed hard.

Cause everything is black and white to you with no gray.
- JoeRussomanno

I'm just spitting your "logic" back at you.

Why not move on and give fresh blood an opportunity? Let Laughton center the 4th line, with two decent linemates, so he's not stuck dragging Rinaldo or Rosehill around every night for 6 minutes.

He's likely to make the team now, and he'll get to play on an energy line with poor players. Welcome to the NHL kid. You had more talented linemates in Junior, but go out and wow us!
- Jsaquella

We'll that is most assuredly a sound option. I would have no problem with that but for some reason the organization feels fit to give Rinaldo another season.

I believe the team that played harder and more physical won not necessarily more skilled, knocked us out of the playoffs last year.
- JoeRussomanno

I don't agree with your conclusion. Nor should we base our opinions of a team based on seven games, imo.

Minus all the stupid stuff (and some of the meanness)... of course.

Dat toe drag...
- Tomahawk

If Corey Perry became partially disabled (like, leg break) and was unable to play hockey ever again, I wouldn't shed a tear for him.

It's not the spilled milk I'm worried about. It's the pouring of the new gallon into the broken pitcher that I mind.
- Jsaquella

That was a very good analogy. Bravo sir, bravo.

We'll that is most assuredly a sound option. I would have no problem with that but for some reason the organization feels fit to give Rinaldo another season.
- JoeRussomanno

THAT'S EXACTLY WHY WE'RE (frank)ING ARGUING!

My ability to watch the games...didn't say he was blowing everyone away with his progress, but I think there are bigger dogs for the lack of "developing" L Schenn, Coots, Laughton (inability to break onto the big club)...lots of guys who have "high upside" just haven't been there all the time yet, and possess a higher skill set than a career 4th liner in a system that has him play as a human wrecking ball...

my thought is that most of the kids that don't make the NHL is that they lack what Zac does have, the heart and drive to try and make himself better, skill gets you in the door...work ethic makes you elite...only time will tell if he can learn, if not he will be a career AHL'r...and nothing lost by trying him out this season to see if he can grow at a very low cost to the overall team...
- JW98FlyerFan

Couturier hasn't developed? He scored almost 40 points while playing an insanely defense first role, and is an elite defensive player and PK guy to boot. Laughton's yet to play a pro season, and all he's done is get better very year in the OHL. Luke Schenn has had a poor developmental pace. But he's also had some extended periods where he plays solid hockey.

Skill without heart is a waste. But Heart with no skill isn't that much better.

I'm just spitting your "logic" back at you.
- jmatchett383

Impossible, you couldn't wrap your lips arpund my logic let alone process it into spit and spew it.

Impossible, you couldn't wrap your lips arpund my logic let alone process it into spit and spew it.
- JoeRussomanno

k

THAT'S EXACTLY WHY WE'RE (frank)ING ARGUING!
- jmatchett383

I thought it was a discussion... So much for that logic.

Impossible, you couldn't wrap your lips arpund my logic let alone process it into spit and spew it.
- JoeRussomanno

And for the record that movie should have been called Kull of Atlantis.

So a Ryan Getzlaf plus a player who throws cheap elbows and jumps other teams' superstars all while whining to the refs constantly? Sign me up!
- jmatchett383

And he'll go terribly bald on one side of his head in his late 20s.

I think both teams competed hard.
- BulliesPhan87

One still competed harder.

I thought it was a discussion... So much for that logic.
- JoeRussomanno

You were arguing in favor of keeping Rinaldo, and then just said that another option was a good idea ("sound" was the actual adjective), and then say that the team doesn't feel that way...which is exactly what we've been "discussing" if you will. So thank you for flip-flopping and stating the point of the discussion.

That's fine, but when you say, "why not see what happens, and if the player improves," how long should we wait? 10 games? 30 games? 3 more years? When he's 34? At what point are we given permission to say, "Well, he's just not that good." Please let me know so I can mark it down.
- jmatchett383

Thats a feel thing, and a personal decision. I thought that Rinaldo stagnated last year, and I didn't see a lot of growth. So if this upcoming season is more of the same, then I'd personally be ready to move on. But the Flyers have made a further commitment.
On the other hand, I'm not going to sit back and say that he has no value as a player, or that he can't improve and become a better player. Because I think that's possible. But I'm not going to get all up in arms over the Coach saying that he is going to continue to evaluate Rinaldo in a PK role. Not a big deal. If Rinaldo can't handle it, then I expect the right decision to be made. After all this is a Coach that demoted Lecavalier to the 4th line. He's going to do what he feels is best for the team.

And for the record that movie should have been called Kull of Atlantis.
- jmatchett383

Arnold can't speak tho

Thats a feel thing, and a personal decision. I thought that Rinaldo stagnated last year, and I didn't see a lot of growth. So if this upcoming season is more of the same, then I'd personally be ready to move on. But the Flyers have made a further commitment.
On the other hand, I'm not going to sit back and say that he has no value as a player, or that he can't improve and become a better player. Because I think that's possible. But I'm not going to get all up in arms over the Coach saying that he is going to continue to evaluate Rinaldo in a PK role. Not a big deal. If Rinaldo can't handle it, then I expect the right decision to be made. After all this is a Coach that demoted Lecavalier to the 4th line. He's going to do what he feels is best for the team.
- MJL

So you're saying, after 82 games, we can all make a final judgement on whether he can provide more than a PIM magnet who hits a lot?

You were arguing in favor of keeping Rinaldo, and then just said that another option was a good idea ("sound" was the actual adjective), and then say that the team doesn't feel that way...which is exactly what we've been "discussing" if you will. So thank you for flip-flopping and stating the point of the discussion.
- jmatchett383

Just because I'm in agreement with the organiztion's decision doesn't make all other options null and void.

Arnold can't speak tho
- JoeRussomanno

CROM LOFFS AT YA FAW WINZ!

We'll that is most assuredly a sound option. I would have no problem with that but for some reason the organization feels fit to give Rinaldo another season.
- JoeRussomanno

Exactly, and the entire point of the discussion is that some of us strongly disagree with the team's decision in this instance.

I don't like his contract extension. I don't like the coach repeatedly saying he expects Rinaldo to have a bigger role. I don't like an unskilled plug like Rinaldo getting opportunity after opportunity when skilled guys, who can actually play hockey get buried after one bad game.

If you think it's overblown, great, ignore the conversation. I find it annoying that the Flyer seem to still value carrying an untalented player and repeatedly give him opportunities despite his flaws, when skilled guys get buried or allowed to jet off to the KHL because the coach decided to bench them after a bad shift