I agree, Rinaldo has been pretty much stagnant in his development. Aside from the Winter/Spring of 2013, he's pretty much just been a one-dimensional player. I also don't understand why the Flyers seemingly give him chance after chance but the likes of McGinn and Akeson have played a total of 38 NHL games.
- NickTheKid87

I disagree that he's stagnant. He's main role is a pest, and he's gotten better as a pest. More hits, i.e. less penalties. It's kind of amazing that he's got 200+ hits in the limited ice time (~7 minutes a game 67 games). He may be doing exactly what the coaching staff is telling him - don't focus on anything but stirring things up.

Yes, he's fairly one-dimensional. But, they are trying develop him into a better defensive player (playing him on PK). I would not give up on a 24 yr old.

(Like it or not) The Flyers seem to have a plan for forward roles; x amount of powerforwards, x amount of snipers, etc... One goon (Rosehill), and one pest (Rinaldo, before him Carcillo)... McGinn and Akeson do not fit the pest (or goon) role, nor are they competing for that role. If the role is to stir things up, would you pick Akeson, McGinn, or Rinaldo.

It's only been the last couple years that we haven't had a number one defender. For the last 45 years you can point to a viable number one defender on all but a handful of those teams. So a lack of a number one defender isn't the reason for no cups.
- mayorofangrytown

There are a lot of things that go into winning a Stanley Cup. Forward depth, team defense, hot goaltending, star players playing as such, role players stepping up, a little luck, etc. The "reason" for no Cups is really a lot of smaller things piled on top of one another.

Ok, I agree with the part about the make up on the entire 4th line, but to single Zac out I think is a bit unfair...the make up of the entire line is a work in progress...I think Zac can skate well, hits hard and digs out pucks and he is by far not the worse defensive forward we have...I will also say i did see some good PK effort out of him last year and think he did make some progress...

you premise on using him as a whipping boy is off though, your dislike of the player is overshadowing your point...you are complaining that you don't like the Flyers concept on building a 4th line and saying Rinaldo is the reason for that...they are mutually exclusive points...Rinaldo has improved, and serves his roll well as a 4th liner...does he take too many dumb penalties, yes...can he fix that yes...take him off the team and players on the other team don't look over their shoulder, when he is on the ice, players are looking and not thinknig about play making...he serves his role well...make it doesn't work on other teams but he is not the reason we don't have a cup...the lack of a Seabrook or Doughty are the reason
- JW98FlyerFan

Rinaldo has not improved, that's the issue. He's not producing any offense and he's a subpar defender. All he can do is hit and skate. He doesn't serve his role well, unless there's an actual need for a undisciplined guy running around blowing coverages and hitting and taking dumb penalties.

The reason the 4th line isn't as good is because rather than use guys like Kruger and Dwight King, the Flyers use guys like Rinaldo, and largely ignore their negatives.

I'm not saying it's the reason they haven't won a Cup, but the mentality that you need a thug is an issue-and it is one that is easily corrected, which is why it bugs me.

Unless you get him out there with other top-6 forwards, I don't think you want to put your 4th line out against other team's top lines to start off the game.

That's a recipe for disaster.
- bradleyc4

You're missing my point. I'm not saying start him a against top lines, unless he somehow exhibits that ability, but rather allowing him to remain on the roster simply due to his work ethic and attitude.

It's only been the last couple years that we haven't had a number one defender. For the last 45 years you can point to a viable number one defender on all but a handful of those teams. So a lack of a number one defender isn't the reason for no cups.
- mayorofangrytown

Only comparing the last few years where LA and CHI became relevant...Agree we have had more issues at play ove the longer period of time...gosh 40 years

I disagree that he's stagnant. He's main role is a pest, and he's gotten better as a pest. More hits, i.e. less penalties. It's kind of amazing that he's got 200+ hits in the limited ice time (~7 minutes a game 67 games). He may be doing exactly what the coaching staff is telling him - don't focus on anything but stirring things up.

Yes, he's fairly one-dimensional. But, they are trying develop him into a better defensive player (playing him on PK). I would not give up on a 24 yr old.

(Like it or not) The Flyers seem to have a plan for forward roles; x amount of powerforwards, x amount of snipers, etc... One goon (Rosehill), and one pest (Rinaldo, before him Carcillo)... McGinn and Akeson do not fit the pest (or goon) role, nor are they competing for that role. If the role is to stir things up, would you pick Akeson, McGinn, or Rinaldo.
- leon neon

Rinaldo was the second most penalized player relative to his ice team last year and only drew 1.7 penalties per 60 as Bill outlines here: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=62084

He gets so many hits because he is a poor puck possession player. He was an effective pest in 2012-13 but not otherwise yet he seems to get more chances than other players, in general, not just as the 4th line energy guy.

I disagree that he's stagnant. He's main role is a pest, and he's gotten better as a pest. More hits, i.e. less penalties. It's kind of amazing that he's got 200+ hits in the limited ice time (~7 minutes a game 67 games). He may be doing exactly what the coaching staff is telling him - don't focus on anything but stirring things up.

Yes, he's fairly one-dimensional. But, they are trying develop him into a better defensive player (playing him on PK). I would not give up on a 24 yr old.

(Like it or not) The Flyers seem to have a plan for forward roles; x amount of powerforwards, x amount of snipers, etc... One goon (Rosehill), and one pest (Rinaldo, before him Carcillo)... McGinn and Akeson do not fit the pest (or goon) role, nor are they competing for that role. If the role is to stir things up, would you pick Akeson, McGinn, or Rinaldo.
- leon neon

He has been stagnant. He hasn't improved much as a hockey player since his rookie season. He still plays undisciplined an is not a good defensive player. Playing a subpar defender on the PK isn't an ideal way to improve him, having him prove it at 5 on 5 is far preferred, and the he earns the PK time. That's usually how it works.

If the only thing a guy brings is being a pest, I'd rather have a guy that can play hockey and provide a physical presence.

I disagree that he's stagnant. He's main role is a pest, and he's gotten better as a pest. More hits, i.e. less penalties. It's kind of amazing that he's got 200+ hits in the limited ice time (~7 minutes a game 67 games). He may be doing exactly what the coaching staff is telling him - don't focus on anything but stirring things up.

Yes, he's fairly one-dimensional. But, they are trying develop him into a better defensive player (playing him on PK). I would not give up on a 24 yr old.

(Like it or not) The Flyers seem to have a plan for forward roles; x amount of powerforwards, x amount of snipers, etc... One goon (Rosehill), and one pest (Rinaldo, before him Carcillo)... McGinn and Akeson do not fit the pest (or goon) role, nor are they competing for that role. If the role is to stir things up, would you pick Akeson, McGinn, or Rinaldo.
- leon neon

Therein lies the problem. The typical roster makeup of this Flyers team, and quite a few lately, does not have enough pure playmakers or skilled players. You mentioned X number of snipers. Who on the current roster is a true sniper? Read, maybe. And he is not in that kind of role. G and Jake are really the only two playmakers, and they're on the same line.

The Flyers have a lot of players who can score the greasy goal. They just don't have enough finesse players, and that is more by design.

Their inconsistency is due more to their lack of skill than lack of effort. Watching Rinaldo deliver a good check isn't going to help the team move through the neutral zone
- PhillySportsGuy

I've seen enough hockey and sports in general in my lifetime to know that skill can be offset by desire. and the desire is suspect at times with this team.

Rinaldo has not improved, that's the issue. He's not producing any offense and he's a subpar defender. All he can do is hit and skate. He doesn't serve his role well, unless there's an actual need for a undisciplined guy running around blowing coverages and hitting and taking dumb penalties.

The reason the 4th line isn't as good is because rather than use guys like Kruger and Dwight King, the Flyers use guys like Rinaldo, and largely ignore their negatives.

I'm not saying it's the reason they haven't won a Cup, but the mentality that you need a thug is an issue-and it is one that is easily corrected, which is why it bugs me.
- Jsaquella

We can agree to disagree on if he has "improved"...

I think the bigger is issue is why the players can't seem to get "up" for a game and need a 4th line to consistantly generate "energy" I want that from my top two lines...

Ok, haha, even though I'm late to the party, I had to comment. I love the melody of that song, but I don't think there is anything ironic in the whole song.

Even plane crash guy...that's just bad luck. It would be ironic if he was so worried about a plane crash that he takes the train...and dies in a train wreck.
- TheGreat28

To me, it's ironic because he refused to fly because he was afraid of plane crashes, so the one day he does decide to fly, it crashes.

But yes, the train and the plane crashing into the train are much more ironic.

You're missing my point. I'm not saying start him a against top lines, unless he somehow exhibits that ability, but rather allowing him to remain on the roster simply due to his work ethic and attitude.
- JoeRussomanno

Remaining on the roster is one thing, quite another to talk about using him in a bigger role and giving him PK time because he works hard in practice. He's a bad hockey player.

I've seen enough hockey and sports in general in my lifetime to know that skill can be offset by desire. and the desire is suspect at times with this team.
- JoeRussomanno

So me and a bunch of my friends can beat the Blackhawks in a 7-game series of NHL-rules ice hockey if we try really, really hard?

Remaining on the roster is one thing, quite another to talk about using him in a bigger role and giving him PK time because he works hard in practice. He's a bad hockey player.
- Jsaquella

That is putting it very bluntly. Everything we've seen with him (to date) indicates this, but you just put it out there. Definitely a...B+ post.

We can agree to disagree on if he has "improved"...

I think the bigger is issue is why the players can't seem to get "up" for a game and need a 4th line to consistantly generate "energy" I want that from my top two lines...
- JW98FlyerFan

Show me one area he has improved in. He's still a lousy possession player. He still runs around on defense looking for big hits. He's still undisciplined and takes too many penalties.

Where is the improvement? One season-a lockout shortened season, to boot-he drew penalties at a slightly higher rate than he took them. That was it. 32 games of drawing more penalties that he took, and immediate regression the next season. There's been no progress as a player, and no permanent progress as an effective "pest"


In terms of needing energy, when your top guys have to play 20+ minutes because your 4th line is (frank)ing useless, it tires guys out

Not creating a log jam if Hextall really wants guys to develop in the AHL. You alo could release guys like Laurdison to make room for someone like Elliot or waive a guy like Powe for Leblanc.
- J35Bacher

Powe is signed to an AHL contract. He can't be waived.

I've seen enough hockey and sports in general in my lifetime to know that skill can be offset by desire. and the desire is suspect at times with this team.
- JoeRussomanno

Congratulations! You are now qualified to work in the Flyers front office in some capacity.



But I've seen plenty of Flyers teams that have had the Patrick Thoreson's of the world never drink from the cup either.

So me and a bunch of my friends can beat the Blackhawks in a 7-game series of NHL-rules ice hockey if we try really, really hard?
- jmatchett383

I've seen enough hockey and sports in general in my lifetime to know that skill can be offset by desire. and the desire is suspect at times with this team.
- JoeRussomanno

If Rinaldo is such a hard worker yet he has improved little, if at all, then that should say something about his skill. Mostly that he has very little to begin with. There are plenty of players with average skill that work hard and become valuable and successful players. There are also plenty of highly skilled players that don't work hard enough or have a bad attitude (see Nikolai/y Zherdev). Then there are players that have high skill and high work ethic who become superstars (see Sidney Crosby).

Rinaldo has had plenty of chances to improve but hasn't. It's part of the Flyers' philosophy to be sure: they want a guy that is tough and physical. But at what cost is that coming?

Changing the topic a bit, but is anyone else worried about 5 on 5 play? Lack of even strength scoring is one of my bigger concerns going into the season, even more so than depth at D.
- TheGreat28

Absolutely. Improved 5 on 5 play is paramount for this team, if they want to move forward.

You're missing my point. I'm not saying start him a against top lines, unless he somehow exhibits that ability, but rather allowing him to remain on the roster simply due to his work ethic and attitude.
- JoeRussomanno

It happens all the time and filling out a roster isn't easy, but I don't agree with carrying marginal players because of perceived intangibles.

Remaining on the roster is one thing, quite another to talk about using him in a bigger role and giving him PK time because he works hard in practice. He's a bad hockey player.
- Jsaquella

Let's see how it goes this year. After all it's not like this is a cup year.

So me and a bunch of my friends can beat the Blackhawks in a 7-game series of NHL-rules ice hockey if we try really, really hard?
- jmatchett383

Frankly, I like your odds.

It happens all the time and filling out a roster isn't easy, but I don't agree with carrying marginal players because of perceived intangibles.
- bradleyc4

I don't think it's perceived when the guy racks up hits with limited playing time.

It happens all the time and filling out a roster isn't easy, but I don't agree with carrying marginal players because of perceived intangibles.
- bradleyc4

In your opinion when is a really good time to carry marginal players?