Carol Schram: Vancouver Canucks Game Day: September 29 vs. Arizona Coyotes The Vancouver Canucks will be taking a good look at their forward prospects and bottom-pairing defensemen as they face the Arizona Coyotes on Monday night at Rogers Arena.

The Kid line will be fun to watch. They're all making an impression at camp and a tough decision for Benning and Desjardins.

you could also say because of the cap savings that we actually got...Miller, Vrbata, Bonino, Dorsett, Mattias and McCann FOR Kesler and Luongo.
- SMP8719

Exactly.
It's amazing how many people fail to realize that cap space is an asset, if your owner is willing to open his chequebook.
- Vanoxy

Sorry, had to make this point from the last thread…

Fail to recognize? Are you sure you are seeing the whole picture?

How much of Luongo's salary did the canucks retain? $800,000 per season off the cap hit until 2022! Now that's wasted cap space.

How big is the recapture penalty if he retires early (which is very likely)? If Lu retires next year the canucks will have just over a $1million cap penalty for 8 years. If he retires in 2019 the canucks will have a cap penalty of $3million+ for 3 years.

http://www.capgeek.com/ne...o-cap-advantage-recapture

The cap penalties could run any where between $1million to $8million off the cap in a single season.

Please explain how that is good cap management Vanoxy? Could it be said that you may be failing to realize the entire implications of Lu's departure?

Sorry, had to make this point from the last thread…

Fail to recognize? Are you sure you are seeing the whole picture?

How much of Luongo's salary did the canucks retain? $800,000 per season off the cap hit until 2022! Now that's wasted cap space.

How big is the recapture penalty if he retires early (which is very likely)? If Lu retires next year the canucks will have just over a $1million cap penalty for 8 years. If he retires in 2019 the canucks will have a cap penalty of $3million+ for 3 years.

http://www.capgeek.com/ne...o-cap-advantage-recapture

The cap penalties could run any where between $1million to $8million off the cap in a single season.

Please explain how that is good cap management Vanoxy? Could it be said that you may be failing to realize the entire implications of Lu's departure?
- bloatedmosquito

None of this is a proven fact... as far as recapture. The Canucks aren't the only team on the hook for these contracts.... there may be a loop hole or the NHL might not uphold that rule fully.

None of this is a proven fact... as far as recapture. The Canucks aren't the only team on the hook for these contracts.... there may be a loop hole or the NHL might not uphold that rule fully.
- SMP8719

You can't manage your team/cap praying for a loop hole down the road. Interpreting recapture in any other way than it's currently written makes no sense. Why is everyone in denial about it?

You can't manage your team/cap praying for a loop hole down the road. Interpreting recapture in any other way than it's currently written makes no sense. Why is everyone in denial about it?
- DrChristianTroy

Not denial... but reguardless if we traded Luongo or not .... recapture could happen unless he was bought out... which was what... like 40 million? I personally think he may play longer in Florida then he would have in Vancouver.... so that may actually help against recapture down the road.

My point was only looking at the now. and NOW we have 10.5 million ish more which allowed us to sign high end free agents for free.... That has to have some value. Look at what ST Louis gave up for Miller!!

Sorry, had to make this point from the last thread…

Fail to recognize? Are you sure you are seeing the whole picture?

How much of Luongo's salary did the canucks retain? $800,000 per season off the cap hit until 2022! Now that's wasted cap space.

How big is the recapture penalty if he retires early (which is very likely)? If Lu retires next year the canucks will have just over a $1million cap penalty for 8 years. If he retires in 2019 the canucks will have a cap penalty of $3million+ for 3 years.

http://www.capgeek.com/ne...o-cap-advantage-recapture

The cap penalties could run any where between $1million to $8million off the cap in a single season.

Please explain how that is good cap management Vanoxy? Could it be said that you may be failing to realize the entire implications of Lu's departure?
- bloatedmosquito

max cap hit for one season is 1.235 mil for 4 seasons. Don't know how the 800k that we eat each season factors in.

Daniel had better score tonight!!

None of this is a proven fact... as far as recapture. The Canucks aren't the only team on the hook for these contracts.... there may be a loop hole or the NHL might not uphold that rule fully.
- SMP8719

I know, but we are talking the canucks so I'll stick to talking canucks.

You have to take the rule as it is written now. I can't predict the future so I have to use reality to form my argument. The Luongo trade was a pure disaster regardless of the cap 'savings'. I would rather the canucks have kept Lu at a $5.2 million cap hit per season than be charged with a $800,000 cap hit until 2022 (fact) and a recapture penalty (probable) that can be anywhere between $1million to $8million per season. The kicker is that a GM can't prepare for the cap hit until Lu announces his retirement. With the canucks constantly up against the cap limit, what do you think will happen if (all of a sudden) needs to find millions in savings because Lu announces his retirement in the off season?

Kesler hurt blocking a shot, David Booth hurt, again, and David Clarkson with a broken orbital bone in his right cheek...all seems right in the hockey world

I know, but we are talking the canucks so I'll stick to talking canucks.

You have to take the rule as it is written now. I can't predict the future so I have to use reality to form my argument. The Luongo trade was a pure disaster regardless of the cap 'savings'. I would rather the canucks have kept Lu at a $5.2 million cap hit per season than be charged with a $800,000 cap hit until 2022 (fact) and a recapture penalty (probable) that can be anywhere between $1million to $8million per season. The kicker is that a GM can't prepare for the cap hit until Lu announces his retirement. With the canucks constantly up against the cap limit, what do you think will happen if (all of a sudden) needs to find millions in savings because Lu announces his retirement in the off season?
- bloatedmosquito

Lu's not retiring any time soon and the cap may be 100 million when he decides to retire. Lets deal with our immediate issues instead of the "what if's" of the future. Too many variables to consider!

It sucks for sure, but Jim Benning and Trevor Linden had nothing to do with it.

I know, but we are talking the canucks so I'll stick to talking canucks.

You have to take the rule as it is written now. I can't predict the future so I have to use reality to form my argument. The Luongo trade was a pure disaster regardless of the cap 'savings'. I would rather the canucks have kept Lu at a $5.2 million cap hit per season than be charged with a $800,000 cap hit until 2022 (fact) and a recapture penalty (probable) that can be anywhere between $1million to $8million per season. The kicker is that a GM can't prepare for the cap hit until Lu announces his retirement. With the canucks constantly up against the cap limit, what do you think will happen if (all of a sudden) needs to find millions in savings because Lu announces his retirement in the off season?
- bloatedmosquito

If another teams player retires first then we will see the rule in effect to prepare for it. Does have some relevance. Say an old team like the Blackhawks deal with it first.... the rule may be altered before Van has to deal with Lu. We should also get some warning when Lu's play starts to decline to where he won't make the team.

max cap hit for one season is 1.235 mil for 4 seasons. Don't know how the 800k that we eat each season factors in.
- Mungo

Not sure what you're saying but check out this site:

http://www.capgeek.com/canucks/

Refer to "Retained Transactions" and you'll see Lu's cap hit penalty for the next 8 years.

I provided the link to the recapture penalties.

The Lu trade was a bad trade no matter how much people try to candy coat it.

Lu's not retiring any time soon and the cap may be 100 million when he decides to retire. Lets deal with our immediate issues instead of the "what if's" of the future. Too many variables to consider!

It sucks for sure, but Jim Benning and Trevor Linden had nothing to do with it.
- LeftCoaster

Not looking to the future has been one of the canucks biggest hindrances. This is what's stopping the hockey brain trust for actually doing the right thing and rebuilding this team from the ground up.

The need to stay profitable right now regardless of the future impact. That should have been the canuck's slogan instead of 'we are all canucks'.

Not sure what you're saying but check out this site:

http://www.capgeek.com/canucks/

Refer to "Retained Transactions" and you'll see Lu's cap hit penalty for the next 8 years.

I provided the link to the recapture penalties.

The Lu trade was a bad trade no matter how much people try to candy coat it.
- bloatedmosquito

My bad, you are correct. But realistically i don't see Lu playing past the 2018-19 season. His payouts for the last three seasons would be 1.6mil, 1mil, 1mil. Canucks hit would be 3mil per year for those three seasons. not great.

My bad, you are correct. But realistically i don't see Lu playing past the 2018-19 season. His payouts for the last three seasons would be 1.6mil, 1mil, 1mil. Canucks hit would be 3mil per year for those three seasons. not great.
- Mungo

This is why some people wanted to see a compliance buyout. I'd rather save those future cap hits than have Shawn Matthias. I bet Markstrom isn't here long-term either unless Lack gets moved.

Not looking to the future has been one of the canucks biggest hindrances. This is what's stopping the hockey brain trust for actually doing the right thing and rebuilding this team from the ground up.

The need to stay profitable right now regardless of the future impact. That should have been the canuck's slogan instead of 'we are all canucks'.
- bloatedmosquito

I think that's a pretty broad statement, I understand your point of view and I'm sure they're looking at it. Regardless, you're trying to oversimplify a complex issue they MAY face in the future.

The current management can't fix Mike Gillis's screw-ups (Luongo)...they just can't???

It's going to take a few years to get out of the Mike Gillis transactions, Benning is a career hockey executive, hopefully he can draft and develop while getting rid of contracts such as Burrows to keep the cap situation in balance for future years to come.

Hey Thunda have you read The Fountainhead or Atlas Shrugged? I'm trying to decide which one to buy first.

Not sure what you're saying but check out this site:

http://www.capgeek.com/canucks/

Refer to "Retained Transactions" and you'll see Lu's cap hit penalty for the next 8 years.

I provided the link to the recapture penalties.

The Lu trade was a bad trade no matter how much people try to candy coat it.
- bloatedmosquito

One thing i met to point out. The NHL was supposed to punish the devils with the loss of a 1st round pick for the signing of Kovalchuk, they later changed their minds on the punishment allowing the Devils to get a first round pick.... it was the 30th, but still they changed their minds. So i don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities that they do the same with the recapture rule.

I wouldn't be surprised if NHL teams challenged the rule as well. There was nothing in the CBA that said they couldn't do this when all these players were signed. I really don't think the NHL has a legal right to impose such punishment. We'll see what happens when these players start retiring i guess. Hopefullly bettman will be gone before then and the new commish will have some common sense.

I think that's a pretty broad statement, I understand your point of view and I'm sure they're looking at it. Regardless, you're trying to oversimplify a complex issue they MAY face in the future.

The current management can't fix Mike Gillis's screw-ups (Luongo)...they just can't???
- LeftCoaster

Without broad statements I wouldn't be able to form an argument.

It's going to take a few years to get out of the Mike Gillis transactions, Benning is a career hockey executive, hopefully he can draft and develop while getting rid of contracts such as Burrows to keep the cap situation in balance for future years to come.
- LeftCoaster

Amen brother!

Hey Thunda have you read The Fountainhead or Atlas Shrugged? I'm trying to decide which one to buy first.
- Gullzy

Also Thunda, you have a pick coming up soon.

Not looking to the future has been one of the canucks biggest hindrances. This is what's stopping the hockey brain trust for actually doing the right thing and rebuilding this team from the ground up.

The need to stay profitable right now regardless of the future impact. That should have been the canuck's slogan instead of 'we are all canucks'.
- bloatedmosquito

Lots can be heaped at Gillis's feet but when he signed Luongo to that contract it was within the rules of the CBA. He cannot be blamed that Bettman decided to punish teams retroactively with the "Luongo Rule". Many here were also pumped to have an elite goalie signed to a low cap.
Not necessarily you but people have a very short memory when it comes to the brutal goal-tending the Canucks have had over the years, it has been only recently that we have been spoiled enough to have goal-tending controversies.

Lots can be heaped at Gillis's feet but when he signed Luongo to that contract it was within the rules of the CBA. He cannot be blamed that Bettman decided to punish teams retroactively with the "Luongo Rule". Many here were also pumped to have an elite goalie signed to a low cap.
Not necessarily you but people have a very short memory when it comes to the brutal goal-tending the Canucks have had over the years, it has been only recently that we have been spoiled enough to have goal-tending controversies.
- belcherbd

Agreed, that's why they should have kept Lu or released him through a buyout.

The canucks have the same owner when they traded Lu as when they signed him to that ridiculous contract. This organization made a commitment to him to be the franchise's goaltender. They should have lived up to that commitment.