I can't find any of his NHL stats. Are you referring to the one quote by Crosby saying McDavid at 16 was better than Crosby at 16?
- jmatchett383

So were you this cynical about Lindros too, or like, me, were you drooling about all of the parades we'd be having?

You know, everyone assumes this. But remember, he missed 50 games or so the year before the eye injury due to knee problems, and had back issues as well. I personally don't think it was a given that he'd be able to maintain that level of play.

If your statement is true, it is more likely an indictment of the current crop of defenseman.
- TheGreat28

Sadly, yes -- I've said it before. The problem with our defense is that outside of Timonen, none of them think the game at a high level offensively AND defensively. Granted, there are plenty of teams with defensemen who have issues.

Where the Flyers defense runs into problems is that the defensemen who think defense are less-than-elite skaters with average-at-best puck skills, except for Coburn, who simply doesn't process the game as well as anyone would like.

The defensemen who are puck movers are simply suspect defensively against size and power AND don't think the game particularly well, a la Timonen or Pronger.

That's why it's so frustrating -- every team's defense has limitations. But you'd like to see a few less on the Flyers.

This is mostly semantics but it's some food for thought: how many generational superstars have there ever been? I'd say Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux, Lindros and Crosby. I'm sure you could make a case for Maurice Richard, Phil Esposito, etc. but I never saw them play obviously so I am hesitant to say.
- NickTheKid87

+ Bossy, Jagr, Lindros, both Hulls, Bure, Lafleur, Forsberg... OV will probably be in there at the end of the day, for all the poop he gets.

So were you this cynical about Lindros too, or like, me, were you drooling about all of the parades we'd be having?
- TheGreat28

I didn't follow hockey until we got him.

Which proven NHL superstar did we trade to get him?

I didn't follow hockey until we got him.

Which proven NHL superstar did we trade to get him?
- jmatchett383

chris simon

chris simon
- 2Real

Oh, my bad.

Kerry Huffman.

This is mostly semantics but it's some food for thought: how many generational superstars have there ever been? I'd say Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux, Lindros and Crosby. I'm sure you could make a case for Maurice Richard, Phil Esposito, etc. but I never saw them play obviously so I am hesitant to say.
- NickTheKid87

Gordie?

+ Bossy, Jagr, Lindros, both Hulls, Bure, Lafleur, Forsberg... OV will probably be in there at the end of the day, for all the poop he gets.
- Tomahawk

No matter how you define it, there haven't been many. Ovechkin needs to get back to his former dominance to be in the convo, IMO. MacKinnon might be in the convo in 15-20 years. Same goes for McDavid. There are some exciting players out there.

Gordie?
- TheGreat28

Was he that much better than everyone else or was he just really good for a long time? I don't know. To be honest, I haven't looked much into his career.

Show me the evidence that McDavid is a generational NHL superstar talent.
- jmatchett383

Watch him play just one game and you can see it. I watched replays of Sam Morin's U18 after we drafted him, and Connor McDavid was the best player in the tournament. It was impossible not to notice him every time he was on the ice and he was two years younger than most players in those games.

Gordie?
- TheGreat28

Ugh, knew I forgot somebody.

If Bossy had even half of Gordie's longevity, he'd probably easily have 1000G+

Watch him play just one game and you can see it. I watched replays of Sam Morin's U18 after we drafted him, and Connor McDavid was the best player in the tournament. It was impossible not to notice him every time he was on the ice and he was two years younger than most players in those games.
- aflyerpower8

I watched all of Canada's WJC last year and he didn't stand out a bit.

But hey, Daigle looked fantastic in juniors too.

those players were never traded now old wayne and old chris were
- 2Real

Pronger was traded from the Whale for Shannahan....he wasnt old

Sadly, yes -- I've said it before. The problem with our defense is that outside of Timonen, none of them think the game at a high level offensively AND defensively. Granted, there are plenty of teams with defensemen who have issues.

Where the Flyers defense runs into problems is that the defensemen who think defense are less-than-elite skaters with average-at-best puck skills, except for Coburn, who simply doesn't process the game as well as anyone would like.

The defensemen who are puck movers are simply suspect defensively against size and power AND don't think the game particularly well, a la Timonen or Pronger.

That's why it's so frustrating -- every team's defense has limitations. But you'd like to see a few less on the Flyers.
- AllInForFlyers

We all know that really, the current defense is a collection of really good 4-6 dman at best.

Personally, I still don't think Morin ever develops close to Pronger's offensive game. I think the best case is that he brings Chara or Pronger's defense and some nastiness, can move the puck quickly and maybe brings a heavy shot from the point.

I think the ideal scenario is that Morin/Ghost thoroughly complement each other's game and the sum is even greater than the parts.

Sanheim seems to be the one guy that could be that guy who is stellar in both ends of the ice.

I watched all of Canada's WJC last year and he didn't stand out a bit.

But hey, Daigle looked fantastic in juniors too.
- jmatchett383

He was 16-yo up against guys 3-4 years his age...

Ugh, knew I forgot somebody.

If Bossy had even half of Gordie's longevity, he'd probably easily have 1000G+
- Tomahawk

Yeah, but I HATED that Islanders team

Pronger was traded from the Whale for Shannahan....he wasnt old
- KINGKENZO

poop i forgot about that team

He was 16-yo up against guys 3-4 years his age...
- Tomahawk

Okay. So that's proof that he'll be able to be a dominant NHL player? Gretzky at 16 was demolishing 20 year olds daily.

poop i forgot about that team
- 2Real

And that was a terrible trade.

And that was a terrible trade.
- jmatchett383

Was it, though?

Was it, though?
- mcefalu

Um....yes. Trick question?

Um....yes. Trick question?
- jmatchett383

You are correct.

Okay. So that's proof that he'll be able to be a dominant NHL player? Gretzky at 16 was demolishing 20 year olds daily.
- jmatchett383

Who's comparing him to Gretzky?

Who's comparing him to Gretzky?
- Tomahawk

He said he's going to be a surefire bonafide superstar. I'm not saying I expect him to be Gretzky, simply that it can be done. Also, the fact that he didn't dominate means it's not a given he will later.

He said he's going to be a surefire bonafide superstar. I'm not saying I expect him to be Gretzky, simply that it can be done. Also, the fact that he didn't dominate means it's not a given he will later.
- jmatchett383

So superstar = arguably the greatest player of all time?

Lindros didn't have the most dominant U20 tourney as a 16-yo... but he stepped into the NHL to the tune of PPG+ and 40G's.