I am practice every day in Voorhees. He hasn't looked very good. He struggled on the split-squad trip (second game). He struggled in Newark. When asked specifically about both MDZ and Del Zotto, Berube measured words carefully and talked more about what he'd like to see that what they are doing.

Yes, last night, Schenn was fine.
- bmeltzer

Agreed, none of the Flyers veteran D, cept for Schultz, are bad players, but, like all non #1 dmen, they have flaws:
Coburn
Strengths: Skates very well, uses his size and reach to effectively defend, can play huge minutes
Flaws: Doesn't bring it on a consistent basis especially when it comes to physical play, lacks any offensive creativity

Schenn
Strengths: plays physical, good on the pk, makes a good first pass out of the zone
Flaws: lacks footspeed, can make the occasional bonehead play

AMac
Strengths: Skates well, blocks shots, makes a good first pass, has a bit of offensive skill and is relatively consistent in his play
Flaws: Gives up the blueline a little too easily, can easily be out muscled

Grossmann
Strengths: Tough and strong as an ox, blocks shots very well, solid on the pk
Flaws: Slow, little to no offensive skill, bad knees

Streit
Strengths: decent mobility, polished offensive skills, possesses a heavy shot and is highly effective on the PP
Flaws: Lacks the size to compete in the D zone, has a tendency to turn the puck over under pressure

MDZ
Strengths: Good skater, highly skilled, makes a good first pass out of the zone
Flaws: Soft physically and woefully inconsistent.

In a perfect world Coburn is the support guy on the top pair or anchors the 2nd. AMac is a solid 2nd pair guy; Schenn, Streit, and Grossmann are the support guys on the 2nd unit or anchor the 3rd while MDZ, from what I've seen so far, is a solid 3rd pair guy. Since acquiring a true #1 is all but impossible and even getting an equivalent to Coburn prohibitivaley expensive, I think we will just need to be patient and go with what we have.

So superstar = arguably the greatest player of all time?

Lindros didn't have the most dominant U20 tourney as a 16-yo... but he stepped into the NHL to the tune of PPG+ and 40G's.
- Tomahawk

So I'm guessing you just neglected to read that post?

All I'm saying is that there is no proof that he will be an NHL superstar.

Was he that much better than everyone else or was he just really good for a long time? I don't know. To be honest, I haven't looked much into his career.
- NickTheKid87

In his prime, by all accounts, he was dominant. And that was in a 6 team league where every player was at least a solid to good player

Schenn
Strengths: plays physical, good on the pk, makes a good first pass out of the zone
Flaws: lacks footspeed, is a bonehead
- BiggE

Revision needed.

Ryan Giroux Voracek
Schenn Couturier Simmonds
Akeson Laughton Read

problem solved
- 2Real

That actually doesn't look bad.

That actually doesn't look bad.
- SuperSchennBros

Well, once we figure out a way to ship off VL without taking any salary back and as long as we don't add $$ anywhere else, we should be set.

Revision needed.
- Tomahawk

I thought he played well last night and most of preaseason. He is, IMO, a solid NHL dman

I thought he played well last night and most of preaseason. He is, IMO, a solid NHL dman
- BiggE

He can be, but he needs to play well more consistently.

He can be, but he needs to play well more consistently.
- jmatchett383

Agreed

Agreed, none of the Flyers veteran D, cept for Schultz, are bad players, but, like all non #1 dmen, they have flaws:
Coburn
Strengths: Skates very well, uses his size and reach to effectively defend, can play huge minutes
Flaws: Doesn't bring it on a consistent basis especially when it comes to physical play, lacks any offensive creativity

Schenn
Strengths: plays physical, good on the pk, makes a good first pass out of the zone
Flaws: lacks footspeed, can make the occasional bonehead play

AMac
Strengths: Skates well, blocks shots, makes a good first pass, has a bit of offensive skill and is relatively consistent in his play
Flaws: Gives up the blueline a little too easily, can easily be out muscled

Grossmann
Strengths: Tough and strong as an ox, blocks shots very well, solid on the pk
Flaws: Slow, little to no offensive skill, bad knees

Streit
Strengths: decent mobility, polished offensive skills, possesses a heavy shot and is highly effective on the PP
Flaws: Lacks the size to compete in the D zone, has a tendency to turn the puck over under pressure

MDZ
Strengths: Good skater, highly skilled, makes a good first pass out of the zone
Flaws: Soft physically and woefully inconsistent.

In a perfect world Coburn is the support guy on the top pair or anchors the 2nd. AMac is a solid 2nd pair guy; Schenn, Streit, and Grossmann are the support guys on the 2nd unit or anchor the 3rd while MDZ, from what I've seen so far, is a solid 3rd pair guy. Since acquiring a true #1 is all but impossible and even getting an equivalent to Coburn prohibitivaley expensive, I think we will just need to be patient and go with what we have.
- BiggE

Streit seems poised to prove that he is the number 1 defense in on this team.

So I'm guessing you just neglected to read that post?

All I'm saying is that there is no proof that he will be an NHL superstar.
- jmatchett383

I guess his record-setting U18 as a 15-yo doesn't count for anything? Or anything he's done in the OHL as a 15-16 yo? Kid is consistently dominant against guys way above his age and weight class... and you cherry pick the one time he didn't put up huge numbers on a team that had trouble scoring goals.

Well, once we figure out a way to ship off VL without taking any salary back and as long as we don't add $$ anywhere else, we should be set.
- jmatchett383

Agreed.

I am practice every day in Voorhees. He hasn't looked very good. He struggled on the split-squad trip (second game). He struggled in Newark. When asked specifically about both MDZ and Del Zotto, Berube measured words carefully and talked more about what he'd like to see that what they are doing.

Yes, last night, Schenn was fine.
- bmeltzer

It's hard to take a ton away from preseason, but the only two out of the presumable top seven that I haven't noticed struggling have been Streit and Grossmann.

MDZ had a good game in London, hasn't seemed comfortable or confident since. Schenn has been up and down. Coburn had looked fairly solid until the MSG game where he and MacDonald looked brutal. Schultz has looked awful throughout.

Well, once we figure out a way to ship off VL without taking any salary back and as long as we don't add $$ anywhere else, we should be set.
- jmatchett383

a good GM would figure that out

I guess his record-setting U18 as a 15-yo doesn't count for anything? Or anything he's done in the OHL as a 15-16 yo? Kid is consistently dominant against guys way above his age and weight class... and you cherry pick the one time he didn't put up huge numbers on a team that had trouble scoring goals.
- Tomahawk

It counts for nothing in the NHL, no. I don't watch his OHL games, I merely mentioned the only time I did see him.

Again, show me proof that he is a 100% lock surefire NHL superstar-to-be, not the next Simon Gamache.

a good GM would figure that out
- 2Real

A good GM would win the stanley cup

Streit seems poised to prove that he is the number 1 defense in on this team.
- SuperSchennBros

If Mark Streit is your #1 dman, your team is in the lottery and picking in the top 10

If Mark Streit is your #1 dman, your team is in the lottery and picking in the top 10
- BiggE

12/13 NY Islanders

He said he's going to be a surefire bonafide superstar. I'm not saying I expect him to be Gretzky, simply that it can be done. Also, the fact that he didn't dominate means it's not a given he will later.
- jmatchett383

Nothing is surefire. But the general consensus from most of the hockey world is that he is going to be a superstar.

If Mark Streit is your #1 dman, your team is in the lottery and picking in the top 10
- BiggE

The problem is, you could probably say that about any of the Flyers defensemen.

Nothing is surefire. But the general consensus from most of the hockey world is that he is going to be a superstar.
- TheGreat28

So you have one player who is a proven NHL superstar. You have another guy who probably will be.

Are you familiar with the hand and the bush?

Edit: You're also assuming Giroux's production will deteriorate greatly at the age of 30, which is a pretty big leap for a player who plays his game.

Simon Gamache.
- jmatchett383

Oh, I see what you did there

No, still my favorite player. Not just Flyer. But player. And favorite since Lindros.

Again, the issue is not with G. It's that I think the Flyers won't compete until these young defensemen are all on the roster, have a couple of years under the belt AND at least one of them is a legit #1.

Would they be better off with a 23 year old superstar or a 30 year old superstar?
- TheGreat28

I don't disagree with that line of thinking. Although I assume by compete, you mean legitimately competing for the Cup, or at least to be considered a true contender. But I still wouldn't trade Giroux.

So you have one player who is a proven NHL superstar. You have another guy who probably will be.

Are you familiar with the hand and the bush?

Edit: You're also assuming Giroux's production will deteriorate greatly at the age of 30, which is a pretty big leap for a player who plays his game.
- jmatchett383

No, I'm saying would you rather have 2-3 years of G playing at that level from 30-33 when the core group of D prospects mature, or McDavid hitting his prime at 21-22?

Because I do think G at 33 might trail off a bit. He's not the biggest guy in the world, and has already had some concussion issues.

If Mark Streit is your #1 dman, your team is in the lottery and picking in the top 10
- BiggE

The 2012-13 Islanders might disagree.