Kopitar was not drafted #1 or #2. Who's to say we don't find one at 6 or 7? It's also not inconceivable that Grigorenko or Reinhart become that guy
- sbroads24

That's why i said top 6 or 7. I get that we could draft 1 at 12th overall or even in the 2nd-7th round for that matter, but the your chances increase exponentially as you get closer to the top.

Also the benefits of drafting top 10 or even top 5 go beyond what the player can do for the team.

Even if a top 5 pick doesn't pan out he's usually got enough talent to generate serious trade value during most of his young years, not unlike Schenn and Jack Johnson.

Just because you don't think any of the guys that have been drafted already can't be franchise players doesn't mean that they won't either. Most of these guys are 18-20 years old. Give them some time. Just because they weren't touted as "the next Crosby" doesn't mean they can't turn out to be great players anyway.
- HonkFortheGoose

But is far less likely that they will. I'd hate for the organization to do a 180 on the rebuild because they believe they have two centres (who haven't been touted as franchise players) who will both overreach significantly to become franchise players. I think they will both be very good but not enough to say they'd fit in that category.

Have always love this picture... I really hope that they make a big statement together this year in blue and gold.

That's why i said top 6 or 7. I get that we could draft 1 at 12th overall or even in the 2nd-7th round for that matter, but the your chances increase exponentially as you get closer to the top.

Also the benefits of drafting top 10 or even top 5 go beyond what the player can do for the team.

Even if a top 5 pick doesn't pan out he's usually got enough talent to generate serious trade value during most of his young years, not unlike Schenn and Jack Johnson.
- Sabresfan-365

I agree with the premise, trust me I want McDavid or Eichel. However I wouldn't call it a colossal failure either. With the amount of prospects we have, it's possible one or even two greatly overachieve

But is far less likely that they will. I'd hate for the organization to do a 180 on the rebuild because they believe they have two centres (who haven't been touted as franchise players) who will both overreach significantly to become franchise players. I think they will both be very good but not enough to say they'd fit in that category.
- Sabresfan-365

I'm not even saying it is a center. Since when does a center have the be "the franchise guy?" It could be Risto for all we know.

I don't think they're sitting in the offices right now saying "We don't want a top pick" but I think it's early to say for sure that we don't have a "franchise player."

I agree with the premise, trust me I want McDavid or Eichel. However I wouldn't call it a colossal failure either. With the amount of prospects we have, it's possible one or even two greatly overachieve
- sbroads24

This.


This is how I feel about it as well. I'm not gonna say I don't want one of them, but I'm not going to say that they have to get one or the entire team will be terrible for the forseeable future either.

OH MY GOD!!!! SUCH A HUGE TOP STORY!!!!!!!!!!!


"Sid to make preseason debut"

- nhl.com

I'm not even saying it is a center. Since when does a center have the be "the franchise guy?" It could be Risto for all we know.

I don't think they're sitting in the offices right now saying "We don't want a top pick" but I think it's early to say for sure that we don't have a "franchise player."
- HonkFortheGoose

The only team that I can say that won a cup lately with their cornerstone/franchise player not being a Center is Boston with Chara but they have a VERY solid top 2 lines w/ Bergeron and Krejci.

Look at the good teams year in an out... ANA, BOS, CHI, COL, DET, LA, NYR, PHI, PIT, SJ, STL, and TB..

About every single one of them outside of BOS and NYR have a cornerstone at C.

There is the best case scenario that makes everyone happy.

The Sabres gel as a team. Everyone hits their potential. Nolan motivates the team to overachieve. The Sabres make the playoffs and maybe win a round.

At the same time, the Islanders fall apart, finish in the bottom five, and win the lottery for the top pick.

Time for me to stop daydreaming and get some work done.
- The Don

Dare to dream...

I agree with the premise, trust me I want McDavid or Eichel. However I wouldn't call it a colossal failure either. With the amount of prospects we have, it's possible one or even two greatly overachieve
- sbroads24

It's entirely possible, I suppose I have an extreme view of the matter just based on what i've seen in the last decade i can't help but think otherwise. It's just that with the mediocrity, tear down and "suffering" in the last few years, I'd hate to see it get setback because of 1 draft

Dare to dream...
- hammatoe

NYI is one major injury from being a bottom 2 team again.

IF Tavares cannot get back to where he was...

IF Tavares takes time to trust his knee again..


A lot of analysts have said that Halak is going to crumble in NYI. It can happen without a doubt.

on top of that.. I just don't think NYI is a good team at all. Signing castaways like Grabo and Kulemin.. Visnovsky is on his last leg.. Counting on all young pups to be your lines 2-4.. an extremely thin defense..

It's entirely possible, I suppose I have an extreme view of the matter just based on what i've seen in the last decade i can't help but think otherwise. It's just that with the mediocrity, tear down and "suffering" in the last few years, I'd hate to see it get setback because of 1 draft
- Sabresfan-365

There's also no guarantee that the guys selected in the top 7 pan out the way you think they will. It happens all the time. Guys get picked 4th and never live up to expectations.

The only team that I can say that won a cup lately with their cornerstone/franchise player not being a Center is Boston with Chara but they have a VERY solid top 2 lines w/ Bergeron and Krejci.

Look at the good teams year in an out... ANA, BOS, CHI, COL, DET, LA, NYR, PHI, PIT, SJ, STL, and TB..

About every single one of them outside of BOS and NYR have a cornerstone at C.
- JVince11

I have a slight issue with your list of teams. Colorado hasn't been good year in and year out. They were good last year. For years before that, they were a mess. It's still to be seen if they'll be good again this year.

Philly has been a mess themselves the last 2 years and Tampa has been up and down the last few years, so I don't think you can consider them to be good year in and year out.

There's also no guarantee that the guys selected in the top 7 pan out the way you think they will. It happens all the time. Guys get picked 4th and never live up to expectations.
- HonkFortheGoose

Yes, but they always seem to carry good value thanks to their draft status.

Schenn and Johnson are both considered major under achievers considering where they were picked, but they both got good returns.

I understand that there are no guarantees but it seems like the top of the draft is still your best bet at acquiring a franchise player.

I have a slight issue with your list of teams. Colorado hasn't been good year in and year out. They were good last year. For years before that, they were a mess. It's still to be seen if they'll be good again this year.

Philly has been a mess themselves the last 2 years and Tampa has been up and down the last few years, so I don't think you can consider them to be good year in and year out.
- HonkFortheGoose

Phi had been a good team for years but was bad last year due to injuries and goalie play.. TB has been solid for a few years now and ECF just a few years ago with Roloson as Goalie. They have a future be good years in and out look to them as does Colorado. that is why i included them.

Why no mention of all of the other teams that I listed that have franchise 1C's?

Yes, but they always seem to carry good value thanks to their draft status.
Schenn and Johnson are both considered major under achievers considering where they were picked, but they both got good returns.

I understand that there are no guarantees but it seems like the top of the draft is still your best bet at acquiring a franchise player.
- Sabresfan-365

Again, not always. There are plenty of guys that don't get that much in return because they didn't work out. Does the name Cam Barker ring a bell? For every guy you name that got a good return, I can find one that didn't. It's really 50/50 no matter what way you look at it.

These guys are barely more than kids when drafted. A lot can happen to someone only 18 years old. There's very few things that are guaranteed in life.

I have a slight issue with your list of teams. Colorado hasn't been good year in and year out. They were good last year. For years before that, they were a mess. It's still to be seen if they'll be good again this year.

Philly has been a mess themselves the last 2 years and Tampa has been up and down the last few years, so I don't think you can consider them to be good year in and year out.
- HonkFortheGoose

His point wasn't really about what teams are good, though.

His point was that all the good teams have really good centers. And all those teams DO have really good centers.

Phi had been a good team for years but was bad last year due to injuries and goalie play.. TB has been solid for a few years now and ECF just a few years ago with Roloson as Goalie. They have a future be good years in and out look to them as does Colorado. that is why i included them.

Why no mention of all of the other teams that I listed that have franchise 1C's?
- JVince11

Who would be STL's franchise centre? I'd argue that Stepan (you mentioned NYR not being one of those teams). Is probably just as good if not better than any centre the blues have. Ditto the Bruins and Bergeron, he's a top 3 two way centre.

Phi had been a good team for years but was bad last year due to injuries and goalie play.. TB has been solid for a few years now and ECF just a few years ago with Roloson as Goalie. They have a future be good years in and out look to them as does Colorado. that is why i included them.

Why no mention of all of the other teams that I listed that have franchise 1C's?
- JVince11

Good teams overcome their injuries. Detroit was decimated with injuries and still managed to get in. I didn't mention the others because my response was in regards to the teams you shouldn't have on your list. If a team has missed the playoffs in the last 4 years, they probably shouldn't be on there. That means they're not good "year in and year out" as you stated. It means that they weren't good because they missed the playoffs.

Who would be STL's franchise centre? I'd argue that Stepan (you mentioned NYR not being one of those teams). Is probably just as good if not better than any centre the blues have. Ditto the Bruins and Bergeron, he's a top 3 two way centre.
- Sabresfan-365

Backes or Berglund.. even Steen.. all have been very good.. I would agree that STL is a team built like the Bruins though. Their franchise man is Peitroangelo most likely.

His point wasn't really about what teams are good, though.

His point was that all the good teams have really good centers. And all those teams DO have really good centers.
- Der Kaiser

So then why isn't Dallas on that list? Or Vancouver? Or Edmonton?

So then why isn't Dallas on that list? Or Vancouver? Or Edmonton?
- HonkFortheGoose

Ask the guy who made the list.

Good teams overcome their injuries. Detroit was decimated with injuries and still managed to get in. I didn't mention the others because my response was in regards to the teams you shouldn't have on your list. If a team has missed the playoffs in the last 4 years, they probably shouldn't be on there. That means they're not good "year in and year out" as you stated. It means that they weren't good because they missed the playoffs.
- HonkFortheGoose

Okay you are just arguing about one team on the list.... but completely missing hte poitn of my post..

The top playoff teams year after year are mainly built around franchise centermen. There are a few exceptions like Boston and STL.

Ask the guy who made the list.
- Der Kaiser

My point is that having a really good center isn't an immediate formula for succes either. It's a team sport and you need high levels of talent at all positions. Not just one.

Again, not always. There are plenty of guys that don't get that much in return because they didn't work out. Does the name Cam Barker ring a bell? For every guy you name that got a good return, I can find one that didn't. It's really 50/50 no matter what way you look at it.

These guys are barely more than kids when drafted. A lot can happen to someone only 18 years old. There's very few things that are guaranteed in life.
- HonkFortheGoose

That's still significantly better than what you would see at say 15th overall for example. I'm not going to dismiss the fact that there is still risk involved, that's inevitable but again it just seems that your odds are always better at the top. Very few things may be guaranteed in life but you can't deny that the guy getting drafted 3rd overall's got a much better chance right away then the guy going 23rd.