He would have stayed in Europe 1 yr and jumped to the NHL.

I think you missed the cut off point here? In the NHL one year after being drafted. I don't care where they played. Junior, AHL...

I have to give some leeway to college kids, they aren't likely to jump. Non North Americans get less leeway but still some.
- mayorofangrytown

So essentially Voynov went back to juniors. That's the point. They had the AHL option with V0ynov. Flyers don't have that with Morin. I think the AHL would be a better place for Morin then juniors. And I think he'd develop faster if he was in the AHL then back in juniors. But that option isn't there. That's the point. Can't compare development curves and how fast they made pro level hockey from the point of their draft year, when all players don't have the same options. Trust me if the AHL ooption was available for Morin. That's where he'd be.

...and I'm out

Well, You have your opinion. Doesn't change mine.

There's no reason to debate it. I think they're as ready for NHL games as some of the schmos we have back there.
- mayorofangrytown

I disagree with your opinion of the Flyers current defense also.

Voynov was in the AHL for three years. Three. He didn't play an NHL game till he was 21.

http://www.capgeek.com/player/1035

Maybe you should try being mayorofbasicresearchtown?
- Feanor

I thought so.

I feel that way as well.... Its the same circus act we call defense, again. Maybe if we make no changes things will be different. I guess I don't see how a guy like nick leddy can fill Brian Campbell's shoes at age 19 but ghost can't fill Grossmann or Schenn's shoes at age 21. Our defense is so slow yet so many fans cling to these slow defenders like they are irreplaceable. Trade them for picks, free up salary, open up roster spots and draft more prospects with the picks.
- moylander

Gostisbehere is a puck moving offensive defenseman. Schenn and Grossmann are stay at home physical defenseman. Who are going to see time on the PK. Not comparable players. You can't have a soft defense in the NHL.

Gostisbehere is a puck moving offensive defenseman. Schenn and Grossmann are stay at home physical defenseman. Who are going to see time on the PK. Not comparable players. You can't have a soft defense in the NHL.
- MJL

Can't have a slow defense in the nhl either.... The flyers have convinced me of that.

Can't have a slow defense in the nhl either.... The flyers have convinced me of that.
- moylander

None of Coburn, MacDonald, Streit, or Del Zotto, are slow.

Can't have a slow defense in the nhl either.... The flyers have convinced me of that.
- moylander

Speed isn't an issue.

Signed,
The Company Yes-Man

Speed isn't the main issue. MacDonald and MDZ were faster than Timonen last season.

Speed isn't the main issue. MacDonald and MDZ were faster than Timonen last season.
- Feanor

They all just have severe limitations

So essentially Voynov went back to juniors. That's the point. They had the AHL option with V0ynov. Flyers don't have that with Morin. I think the AHL would be a better place for Morin then juniors. And I think he'd develop faster if he was in the AHL then back in juniors. But that option isn't there. That's the point. Can't compare development curves and how fast they made pro level hockey from the point of their draft year, when all players don't have the same options. Trust me if the AHL ooption was available for Morin. That's where he'd be.
- MJL

There's nothing there to debate.

Your point is completely different. If that was what I was arguing I'd have to agree with you.

My point is. this is the 2nd time they're sending Morin back. even if they demoted him to the AHL it wouldn't change what I'm saying except there'd be an option of him getting a call up.

Voynov spent a yr in the A. Morin spent a year in the Q. Voynov made the big club the next season. Morin got demoted the second season.

Players that get demoted more than once in my single draft year sampling size were almost completely underwhelming compared to those who made the show out of their first or second camp.

That's all I got. I'm not tying my reputation to it, it was just an observation to discuss. I've tied it to Morin because he got demoted today and the general, what I believe, myth that kids develop better if you let them stew in lesser leagues longer. On the face of it I don't think that's the case and there's been no evidence to support it but like I said my sample is tiny.

Also, keeping them in the show after they've served a yr in the minors or jumped right in post draft ruining them... kinda blown out the window IMO.

I disagree with your opinion of the Flyers current defense also.
- MJL

In this, you're an island.

Anyone else thing the Phantoms website is awful? I'm assuming it's a temporary thing, but it seems odd they haven't done anything to improve it all summer.

Edit: Unless one of you guys made it in which case it has tons of potential

I thought so.
- MJL

I missed on one. He wasn't the main thrust of the argument anyway.

None of Coburn, MacDonald, Streit, or Del Zotto, are slow.
- MJL

Remind me who won the fastest skater award this year?

what on earth

In this, you're an island.
- mayorofangrytown

Doubt that. The Flyers are certainly lacking a top #1 defenseman and a legitimate top defense pairing. And they are playing some players in roles thatr they're not best suited for. But they don't suck. None of them suck.

Voynov was in the AHL for three years. Three. He didn't play an NHL game till he was 21.

http://www.capgeek.com/player/1035

Maybe you should try being mayorofbasicresearchtown?
- Feanor

Sorry, I failed and went 18 of 19. You rule. I'm a fraud.

Remind me who won the fastest skater award this year?
- moylander

Another deflection. Jay Rosehill won the fastest skater award so therefore the Flyers defenseman are slow.

Doubt that. The Flyers are certainly lacking a top #1 defenseman and a legitimate top defense pairing. And they are playing some players in roles thatr they're not best suited for. But they don't suck. None of them suck.
- MJL

They suck as a unit. I'll reserve the right to say Del Zotto sucks after ten games.

I feel that way as well.... Its the same circus act we call defense, again. Maybe if we make no changes things will be different. I guess I don't see how a guy like nick leddy can fill Brian Campbell's shoes at age 19 but ghost can't fill Grossmann or Schenn's shoes at age 21. Our defense is so slow yet so many fans cling to these slow defenders like they are irreplaceable. Trade them for picks, free up salary, open up roster spots and draft more prospects with the picks.
- moylander

you don't like our #Dbola?

Another deflection. Jay Rosehill won the fastest skater award so therefore the Flyers defenseman are slow.
- MJL

You take HB too seriously. Relax it was a joke, not a deflection.

what on earth
- -davies-

Heeeeyyyyy...

you don't like our #Dbola?
- isaiah520

There's nothing there to debate.

Your point is completely different. If that was what I was arguing I'd have to agree with you.

My point is. this is the 2nd time they're sending Morin back. even if they demoted him to the AHL it wouldn't change what I'm saying except there'd be an option of him getting a call up.

Voynov spent a yr in the A. Morin spent a year in the Q. Voynov made the big club the next season. Morin got demoted the second season.

Players that get demoted more than once in my single draft year sampling size were almost completely underwhelming compared to those who made the show out of their first or second camp.

That's all I got. I'm not tying my reputation to it, it was just an observation to discuss. I've tied it to Morin because he got demoted today and the general, what I believe, myth that kids develop better if you let them stew in lesser leagues longer. On the face of it I don't think that's the case and there's been no evidence to support it but like I said my sample is tiny.

Also, keeping them in the show after they've served a yr in the minors or jumped right in post draft ruining them... kinda blown out the window IMO.
- mayorofangrytown

Maybe I misunderstood your point. But what I also posted, and I'll repeat it. While I don't think that sending Morin to another junior season, is going to affect the player he winds up becoming. I do think it will delay that development somewhat, versus if he was able to play in the AHL this year. I think he's be further along at the end of this season, if he played in the AHL versus another year in juniors.