Islanders really making a splash in upgrading their D in the short term. Going to be a really interesting in this Division.. Might be a struggle for us to make the playoffs.

Islanders really making a splash in upgrading their D in the short term. Going to be a really interesting in this Division.. Might be a struggle for us to make the playoffs.
- Hextall271

I like Boychuk and Leddy, but I don't think their acquisition guarantees the Isles a playoff spot. It's going to be a dog fight in the Metro this year. I think the Pens take the division, the Devils finish 7th (counting on too many senior citizens to have big years IMO) and the Canes, who are a mess, to finish last. 2-6 could easily be separated by only a couple of points and tiebreakers.

The contending teams don't dress enforcers ? The Bruins have Thorton. The. Blackhawks dressed Carcillo during one of the years they won the cup and just reaquired him. If the flyers reaquired Carcillo, you guys would riot in the streets. When Detroit last won the cup, they had Aaron Downey. The Kings who won the cup last year, dressed Clifford who had 9 fights, Nolan who had 8 fights, and Carcillo during the first half of the year. I would defer to the hockey knowledge and judgment of general managers who have recently won cups like Dean Lombardi and Peter Ciarella with all due respect. If an enforcer is not necessary to win a cup and is a waste of a spot, why did the Kings feel thee need to dress three of them last year when they won the cup? Why did the Blackhawks get Carcillo yesterday? I did not see Rosehill as a liability. I think he was a good skater for his size but it is tough to develop as a player when the coach doesn't play you.

So Rinaldo is not 169lbs. How much is he - 180lbs?

FWIW, Here are one guy's picks at how the NHL standings go this season:
(wildcard teams are starred*)

ATLANTIC
Tampa
Boston
Montreal
Detroit
Toronto
Florida
Ottawa
Buffalo

METRO
Pittsburgh
NY Rangers
Philadelphia
Columbus*
NY Islanders*
Washington
New Jersey
Carolina

CENTRAL
St. Louis
Chicago
Dallas
Colorado*
Minnesota*
Nashville
Winnipeg

PACIFIC
Anaheim
Los Angeles
San Jose
Arizona
Vancouver
Edmonton
Calgary

Eastern Conference Finals: Boston over Pittsburgh
Western Conference Finals: Chicago over LA

CUP FINALS: Chicago over Boston

Team with the best chance of landing McDavid: Carolina

The contending teams don't dress enforcers ? The Bruins have Thorton. The. Blackhawks dressed Carcillo during one of the years they won the cup and just reaquired him. If the flyers reaquired Carcillo, you guys would riot in the streets. When Detroit last won the cup, they had Aaron Downey. The Kings who won the cup last year, dressed Clifford who had 9 fights, Nolan who had 8 fights, and Carcillo during the first half of the year. I would defer to the hockey knowledge and judgment of general managers who have recently won cups like Dean Lombardi and Peter Ciarella with all due respect. If an enforcer is not necessary to win a cup and is a waste of a spot, why did the Kings feel thee need to dress three of them last year when they won the cup? Why did the Blackhawks get Carcillo yesterday? I did not see Rosehill as a liability. I think he was a good skater for his size but it is tough to develop as a player when the coach doesn't play you.

So Rinaldo is not 169lbs. How much is he - 180lbs?
- Bergey

There is a difference between an old school enforcer like Rosehill, who, while a decent skater, has no skill whatsoever, and guys like Clifford, Carcillo and Nolan who can actually chip in some points and play a complete game.

The contending teams don't dress enforcers ? The Bruins have Thorton. The. Blackhawks dressed Carcillo during one of the years they won the cup and just reaquired him. If the flyers reaquired Carcillo, you guys would riot in the streets. When Detroit last won the cup, they had Aaron Downey. The Kings who won the cup last year, dressed Clifford who had 9 fights, Nolan who had 8 fights, and Carcillo during the first half of the year. I would defer to the hockey knowledge and judgment of general managers who have recently won cups like Dean Lombardi and Peter Ciarella with all due respect. If an enforcer is not necessary to win a cup and is a waste of a spot, why did the Kings feel thee need to dress three of them last year when they won the cup? Why did the Blackhawks get Carcillo yesterday? I did not see Rosehill as a liability. I think he was a good skater for his size but it is tough to develop as a player when the coach doesn't play you.

So Rinaldo is not 169lbs. How much is he - 180lbs?
- Bergey

Most contending teams don't dress enforcers who are unable to play a regular shift at the NHL level.

The guys who fought most for LA, Jordan Nolan and Kyle Clifford are actually decent NHL players that can do more than fight. Daniel Carcillo has two double digit goal seasons on his resume. Thornton is also a former 10 goal scorer who can play solid defenively.

You need team toughness, not just a guy who can fight.

I like Boychuk and Leddy, but I don't think their acquisition guarantees the Isles a playoff spot. It's going to be a dog fight in the Metro this year. I think the Pens take the division, the Devils finish 7th (counting on too many senior citizens to have big years IMO) and the Canes, who are a mess, to finish last. 2-6 could easily be separated by only a couple of points and tiebreakers.
- BiggE

The Isles season depends a lot on Halak. The defensive additions help to, but if Halak can be as solid as he was with the Blues, and Tavares stays healthy, they could easily be a playoff team.
They have a good core there, at least for this season. If they lose Boychuk as a UFA, they will have wasted some significant assets for one year

Most contending teams don't dress enforcers who are unable to play a regular shift at the NHL level.

The guys who fought most for LA, Jordan Nolan and Kyle Clifford are actually decent NHL players that can do more than fight. Daniel Carcillo has two double digit goal seasons on his resume. Thornton is also a former 10 goal scorer who can play solid defenively.

You need team toughness, not just a guy who can fight.
- Jsaquella

Exactly!
Career game and point totals:
Thornton 559 88 ppg .16
Carcillo 390 92 ppg .24
Clifford 276 48 ppg .17
Nolan 134 20 ppg .15
Rosehill 117 8 ppg .07

He really impressed me in his short stint with the big club. Ghost and morin too. And there's still Hägg. Future looks really bright on blue line and that is awesome
- funmaster18

I can't remember a time when they had so many legitimate D prospects

The Isles season depends a lot on Halak. The defensive additions help to, but if Halak can be as solid as he was with the Blues, and Tavares stays healthy, they could easily be a playoff team.
They have a good core there, at least for this season. If they lose Boychuk as a UFA, they will have wasted some significant assets for one year
- Jsaquella

Agreed, I could see the Isles finishing anywhere from 2nd to 6th. I really think all 5 Metro teams, NYR, NYI, WAS, PHL and COL all finish between 90-98 points.

I can't remember a time when they had so many legitimate D prospects
- Jsaquella

That would be never.


Heck, I can remember when they were excited to have Kerry Huffman and Jiri Latal as prospects!

There was Wilson in the late 70s and Pitkanen before he made his debut, but never, in my memory, have they had a group like Sanheim, Morin and Ghost at the same time. Add when you add Hagg, Alt and maybe Friedman, wow!

I can't remember a time when they had so many legitimate D prospects
- Jsaquella

I remember hoping one or two would be able to be serviceable defensemen. It's looking like all 4 could be that and then some. Hopefully their development continues in a positive direction.

Agreed, I could see the Isles finishing anywhere from 2nd to 6th. I really think all 5 Metro teams, NYR, NYI, WAS, PHL and COL all finish between 90-98 points.
- BiggE

I see it the same way. I could see the Flyers finishing 7th. I could also see them finishing 2nd. Neither would surprise me in the least. It's a wacky division. I expect NJ, NYI and Washington to be better, and Columbus looked better until the Johansen holdout got ridiculous and Jenner got hurt.

As for the Flyers, I think they pretty much stayed the same. Schenn and Couturier will get better, but the D is worse.

The contending teams don't dress enforcers ? The Bruins have Thorton. The. Blackhawks dressed Carcillo during one of the years they won the cup and just reaquired him. If the flyers reaquired Carcillo, you guys would riot in the streets. When Detroit last won the cup, they had Aaron Downey. The Kings who won the cup last year, dressed Clifford who had 9 fights, Nolan who had 8 fights, and Carcillo during the first half of the year. I would defer to the hockey knowledge and judgment of general managers who have recently won cups like Dean Lombardi and Peter Ciarella with all due respect. If an enforcer is not necessary to win a cup and is a waste of a spot, why did the Kings feel thee need to dress three of them last year when they won the cup? Why did the Blackhawks get Carcillo yesterday? I did not see Rosehill as a liability. I think he was a good skater for his size but it is tough to develop as a player when the coach doesn't play you.

So Rinaldo is not 169lbs. How much is he - 180lbs?
- Bergey

If you're going to have a critical argument, it would be nice if you could start spelling names correctly.

That would be never.


Heck, I can remember when they were excited to have Kerry Huffman and Jiri Latal as prospects!

There was Wilson in the late 70s and Pitkanen before he made his debut, but never, in my memory, have they had a group like Sanheim, Morin and Ghost at the same time. Add when you add Hagg, Alt and maybe Friedman, wow!
- BiggE

Yep, even in Keith Allen's heyday, there was never such depth on the farm.

There is a difference between an old school enforcer like Rosehill, who, while a decent skater, has no skill whatsoever, and guys like Clifford, Carcillo and Nolan who can actually chip in some points and play a complete game.
- BiggE

Also a guy like Scott Thornton, who might not have much offensive upside, but has a pretty good defensive game.

I can't remember a time when they had so many legitimate D prospects
- Jsaquella

SHIIVVVVVAAAAAAA

It's good to see the Flyer's prospects do well and it's also good that Hextall is committed to keeping draft picks and developing young players. But, it was a big mistake to waive Rosehill and go with such a small line-up. Regarding he small line-up, one of the Flyers biggest problems is that they constantly lose battles in the corners and in front of the other team's goal. If the puck is In the corner, there is an excellent chance that the other team is going to come out with the puck. This is a direct result of their lack of size at forward. As far as Rosehill is concerned, with him out of the line-up, their smaller forwards are going to get run and that does affect their play, make no mistake about it. Either Simmonds, the team's top goal scorer or Rinaldo, who is 169lbs will have to fight. It's ridiculous to rely on your team' top goal scorer to protect your players or have a 169lb player fight the other team' top fighter who is frequently 50 or 60 lbs heavier.

If I was going to build an NHL team, the Kings would be my prototype since they have won two cups in the last three years. Last year, the Kings had the heaviest team in the league, the Flyers had the 24th heaviest. And, if you look at the Flyers forwards, and take out their defensemen, they probably have the smallest set of forwards in the league. The Kings have 9 forwards over 200 lbs, the Flyers have 4 and 2 of them - Jones and Lecavilier probably won't get huge ice time. Last year, the Kings had two enforcers on their team - Kyle Clifford who had 9 fights and Jordan Nolan who had 8 fights plus for the first half of the year, they also had Carcillo. Against the Rangers, the Kings' dominated in the corners. While the Flyers constantly lost board battles against the Rangers, the Kings won those same battles. Now, I know the Flyers don't have Quick or Doughty, but in building your team, you need to look at what is successful and the Kings with the heaviest team and 2 enforcers have been successful. I hear all this stuff about team toughness and copying the Red Wings. The Red Wings haven't won a cup in 6 years and when they did, they had Aaron Downey, like Jay Rosehill, an enforcer. Why not emulate a team that has had some recent success like the Kings?

One final thought - talent wise, the Flyers are not that great. They have Giroux, Simmonds, and Vorachek. The jury is still out on Schenn and on Courtier, at least offensively. Why not go with a more physical line-up instead a small, finesse line-up and see if that works. Right now, with the present line-up as constituted, they are going to have the same problems they had last year where their forwards constantly lose board battles and their skill players are going to get run. This is definitely not a formula for success.
- Bergey

Hi Mrs. Rosehill tell jay we said good luck this year!

SHIIVVVVVAAAAAAA
- KGBflyers10

SHIVAKAMINI SOMAKANDARKRAM!!!!!!!!!!

So, if the Flyers reaquired Carcillo, no one on this board would have a problem with it? I doubt that. I have not been on this board a long time, but I bet if I went back and looked, many people would have had nothing but criticism for him when he was on the Flyers. When you only play a few minutes a night, it's difficult to be effective and improve as a player. Rosehill can skate which is a huge plus for a big man. Paul Holmgren started out as nothing but a goon and scored 30 goals one year. Dave Schultz scored 20 goals. There is a long list of players who get in the league with their fists and develop other skills.

Exactly!
Career game and point totals:
Thornton 559 88 ppg .16
Carcillo 390 92 ppg .24
Clifford 276 48 ppg .17
Nolan 134 20 ppg .15
Rosehill 117 8 ppg .07
- BiggE

The other factor is, if they feel they need Rosehill, he can be recalled. There's no such thing as re-entry waivers anymore, so it's no issue bringing him back.

It's not as if he's banished to the land of wind and ghost.

stick tap to Bill Meltzer for the picture

Mrs. Rosehill pretty funny. But shouldn't it be Mrs. Giroux for what he did this summer?

So, if the Flyers reaquired Carcillo, no one on this board would have a problem with it? I doubt that. I have not been on this board a long time, but I bet if I went back and looked, many people would have had nothing but criticism for him when he was on the Flyers. When you only play a few minutes a night, it's difficult to be effective and improve as a player. Rosehill can skate which is a huge plus for a big man. Paul Holmgren started out as nothing but a goon and scored 30 goals one year. Dave Schultz scored 20 goals. There is a long list of players who get in the league with their fists and develop other skills.
- Bergey

We already have Rinaldo, why do we need Carrillo?

So, if the Flyers reaquired Carcillo, no one on this board would have a problem with it? I doubt that. I have not been on this board a long time, but I bet if I went back and looked, many people would have had nothing but criticism for him when he was on the Flyers. When you only play a few minutes a night, it's difficult to be effective and improve as a player. Rosehill can skate which is a huge plus for a big man. Paul Holmgren started out as nothing but a goon and scored 30 goals one year. Dave Schultz scored 20 goals. There is a long list of players who get in the league with their fists and develop other skills.
- Bergey

A lot of people would have a problem if Carcillo came back because we know what he truly is--an instigator who takes far too many penalties. Carcillo has skill, no one can deny that because of the various roles he's found himself in (winger to Mike Richards in 2010, playing sparingly with Toews and Kane in Chicago before his injury, his stint with the Rangers).

But look at the flip side, in the past five seasons he's been with what? Four organizations? His act gets very old, and a coach has not been able to reel him in. He plays on the edge and often finds himself riding the pine because of it. Carcillo is still young enough that teams want to give him a shot to see if he can consistently be a good player, but it hasn't happened yet and probably won't ever.

In regards to you two examples of enforcers potting in quite a few goals, you're right. Holmgren did have 30 goals, and Schultz had 20. But you're forgetting that Schultz was actually a scorer in juniors, who had a tough time cracking the lineup. The only way he could get in there was by dropping the mitts.

You're also talking about a time in the sport when conditioning wasn't top notch. That big, heavy guys, who skated slow could still be beneficial on the ice because speed wasn't the biggest asset a player could have. But now? Now times have changed and it's all about speed.

So, if the Flyers reaquired Carcillo, no one on this board would have a problem with it? I doubt that. I have not been on this board a long time, but I bet if I went back and looked, many people would have had nothing but criticism for him when he was on the Flyers. When you only play a few minutes a night, it's difficult to be effective and improve as a player. Rosehill can skate which is a huge plus for a big man. Paul Holmgren started out as nothing but a goon and scored 30 goals one year. Dave Schultz scored 20 goals. There is a long list of players who get in the league with their fists and develop other skills.
- Bergey

Paul Holmgren was never just a fighter. His first NHL season he had 14 goals in 59 games. Then he scored 16 and 19 in 62 and 57 games in his next two seasons.

Holmgren and Schultz did other things besides fight. Rosehill can't. Rosehill is 29 years old, and has bounced around. It's not like he's a 20 or 21 year old Rick Tocchet, who scored 14 goals as a rookie and showed ability to be more than a fighter.


The game is a lot different now than it was when Schultz and Holmgren played. Back then, guys had to fight when they played cheap or ran around hitting stars. Now, there's no shame in turtling or avoiding a fight with an enforcer. The rules have changed to limit their effectiveness.

As far as Carcillo goes, yeah, I'd have an issue with it. But not because he's tough or unskilled, but because he's undisciplined.