Sometimes it can. For instance, what is Scott Laughton going to be as an NHL player? Most likely a 3rd line checking center that can chip in some offense. So what's most important is geting Laughton ready for the pro game with his play away from the puck. So what good would pushing him to play like a #1 center and focusing more on the offesive game at the AHL level? Not saying he should ignore that part of the game. But Murray knows how a player has to play, to make a good NHL player. Murray coached the base for the success that LA has had.
- MJL

I'm a little bit torn here. On one hand we're all saying that Couturier shouldn't be judged on his offense yet because he's been thrust into a primarily defensive role. I agree with that. Put him in a better position to succeed - better wingers and more offensive zone starts, etc - and let's see what he can become.

But now on Laughton we're saying he's gonna be a 3rd line shutdown center anyway so let's just focus on developing his defense. Let's face it - his defensive game is already NHL level. I think they need to work on his offense in the A to max his potential.

Long term I really do think Laugton is a 3rd line guy, maybe even for a different team. But I want a 3rd line center that can chip in 50+ points, be it Couturier or Laughton. That's what Murray's mission with Laughton should be.

We'll just agree to disagree in that regard.
- PhillySportsGuy

This...just...NO!!! Don't you know that you need to state your opinion, stick to it as fact, dig in your heels, and ignore all evidence to the contrary while making wild, uninformed decisions based on loose interpretations of facts and/or CORSI?

Is anyone else a little concerned about Terry Murray as the Phantoms head coach? I know they've lacked talent, but even when they had Couts and Schenn, they looked horrible.
- PhillySportsGuy

His track record as a developmental coach is kind of iffy.

Very defensive oriented. Phantoms have been at or near the bottom in goals scored since he took over. I know they've lacked talent, but even when Schenn and Couts were there, they still couldn't score.
- PhillySportsGuy

Yeah, people give him credit for setting the table for the Kings, but it's easy to forget that he was fired because he couldn't get that group to put the puck in the net... despite a lot of good players at his disposal.

Sure it's partly on the player to take advantage of his opportunities, but the opportunities have not been as plentiful for Couturier as , say Schenn. Schenn is older and had more developmental time, and had his 20 goals, but still only had two more points than Couturier did, in a far more offensively inclined role.

He's also still a kid. If he still has scoring issues, it doesn't mean he never will develop into a good scorer
- Jsaquella

Agreed. I haven't drawn any conclusions with Couts, more of a working premise. And for me, a 3rd line shutdown center that can chip in 50-55 points is a highly valuable asset. It just might not be what I'd want for a 2nd line center role.

I agree a little bit with this. I would be more worried if the Phantoms had some dynamic offensive prospects on the roster. They really only have Straka that would project to a pure offensive role. I think fixing this problem needs to be Hexy's next challenge.

The key will be the progress of Ghost. If Murray can teach him the defensive side of the game without putting a governor on his offense, then the year will be a success.
- TheGreat28

People always just say "well, he's teaching them to be defensively responsible."

I don't understand how constantly playing defense is going to help a player's development. They need to develop a two-way game and learn how to be productive offensively while being responsible defensively.

And we are saying he is only 21 years old and has been used in a strictly defensive role so far in his career. Scored only two less points than B Schenn with less talented wingers, and is out there against the opponents best player game in and game out.

And your words are calling him a bust. You are declaring he has no offensive upside at 21 years of age. Own your comments.
- MBFlyerfan

How many years has he been in the league now? why has he been used as you say in a defensive role? Is it possible 2 coaches don’t see that offensive upside either? I don’t care about schenn as we are not talking about him.

Own my comments. Ok. if I think he will be a bust I will say as much. So in 3 years when he is only 24 I guess because he is young you can still make the age argument that he has offensive upside right?

Colton Orr waived... Leafs and Flyers w/o tough guys... is this a sign of progress?

His track record as a developmental coach is kind of iffy.




Yeah, people give him credit for setting the table for the Kings, but it's easy to forget that he was fired because he couldn't get that group to put the puck in the net... despite a lot of good players at his disposal.
- Tomahawk

It worries me. Frankly, I'd prefer a younger, more player friendly coach than a drill sergeant for the kids.

This...just...NO!!! Don't you know that you need to state your opinion, stick to it as fact, dig in your heels, and ignore all evidence to the contrary while making wild, uninformed decisions based on loose interpretations of facts and/or CORSI?
- jmatchett383

This ain't my first rodeo

I am sure this was posted, but apparently Simmonds is at practice today per carchidi.

I think Murray's trying to teach the players which will come at the cost of winning games. Getting them ready for the NHL is paramount. I don't think Ghost, Laughton, etc. will care if they win or lose all that much considering they are just trying to get to the NHL.
- NickTheKid87

I think they will care if they win or lose. Hexy went out and got several AHL vets to help the team win. He obviously thinks winning is important at that level. Winning creates confidence unless a player is a selfish ass

How many years has he been in the league now? why has he been used as you say in a defensive role? Is it possible 2 coaches don’t see that offensive upside either? I don’t care about schenn as we are not talking about him.

Own my comments. Ok. if I think he will be a bust I will say as much. So in 3 years when he is only 24 I guess because he is young you can still make the age argument that he has offensive upside right?
- rinaldo

Look, regardless of whether he develops his offensive game enough to be a legit #2 center or not, Couts will never be considered a bust. A bust is someone like Magnus Paajarvi, who I admit I actually wanted the Flyers to try to grab last year (albeit, not at what St. Louis gave up for him.

Couturier has and will continue to have a prominent role on the team, and league-wide recognition as well. The only real question is whether that role is as a 2nd line center or a 3rd line center.

Look, regardless of whether he develops his offensive game enough to be a legit #2 center or not, Couts will never be considered a bust. A bust is someone like Magnus Paajarvi, who I admit I actually wanted the Flyers to try to grab last year (albeit, not at what St. Louis gave up for him.

Couturier has and will continue to have a prominent role on the team, and league-wide recognition as well. The only real question is whether that role is as a 2nd line center or a 3rd line center.
- TheGreat28

Come on man, this dude's obviously tpanotch or one of the other writers in disguise. Let him live in his negative nancy dream world and let's get back to important matters like trading Giroux for the next Owen Nolan!

Very defensive oriented. Phantoms have been at or near the bottom in goals scored since he took over. I know they've lacked talent, but even when Schenn and Couts were there, they still couldn't score.
- PhillySportsGuy

Very defensive oriented is not a system. It is a general description of style. All of the best teams in the league play with an enphasis on taking care of the defensive side and pressuring the puck. I don't know what exact system Murray incorporates iwth the Phantoms. But it wouldn't suprise me if it was the same as the Flyers use. I think there are some misconceptions bieng applied here, about Murray as a coach.

Look, regardless of whether he develops his offensive game enough to be a legit #2 center or not, Couts will never be considered a bust. A bust is someone like Magnus Paajarvi, who I admit I actually wanted the Flyers to try to grab last year (albeit, not at what St. Louis gave up for him.

Couturier has and will continue to have a prominent role on the team, and league-wide recognition as well. The only real question is whether that role is as a 2nd line center or a 3rd line center.
- TheGreat28

good lord. i didnt say he was a bust. i guess you get confused when i say i expect more from the #8 overall pick and him being a bust

How many years has he been in the league now? why has he been used as you say in a defensive role? Is it possible 2 coaches don’t see that offensive upside either? I don’t care about schenn as we are not talking about him.

Own my comments. Ok. if I think he will be a bust I will say as much. So in 3 years when he is only 24 I guess because he is young you can still make the age argument that he has offensive upside right?
- rinaldo

It's not like he's showing no offense though. He registered 39 points in 82 games (0.48 ppg) last year. That's not overly impressive but when you consider that he only started 42.6% of his shifts in the offensive zone and played with Rinaldo and other subpar offensive players on his wing, that's not that bad. Plus he averaged 1:29 minutes per game on the powerplay. To compare, Lecavalier started 58.2% of his shifts in the offensive zone, averaged 2:21 per game on the powerplay, played with superior linemates 5 v 5 and managed to score 37 points in 69 games (0.54 ppg).

To take it a step further, Couturier's Corsi Rel Quality of Competition at 5-on-5 was 1.562 while Lecavalier's was -0.111. So Couturier faced much tougher competition than Vinny (which is expected given his role) and managed to score at a slightly lesser clip. What happens if he gets more favorable match-ups and more offensive zone starts? Chances are, his point production will increase.

Come on man, this dude's obviously tpanotch or one of the other writers in disguise. Let him live in his negative nancy dream world and let's get back to important matters like trading Giroux for the next Owen Nolan!
- jmatchett383

yeah you keep felating over #14. negative nancy. sure why not.
who will have the better career #14 or danius zubrus in your opinion.

I'm a little bit torn here. On one hand we're all saying that Couturier shouldn't be judged on his offense yet because he's been thrust into a primarily defensive role. I agree with that. Put him in a better position to succeed - better wingers and more offensive zone starts, etc - and let's see what he can become.

But now on Laughton we're saying he's gonna be a 3rd line shutdown center anyway so let's just focus on developing his defense. Let's face it - his defensive game is already NHL level. I think they need to work on his offense in the A to max his potential.

Long term I really do think Laugton is a 3rd line guy, maybe even for a different team. But I want a 3rd line center that can chip in 50+ points, be it Couturier or Laughton. That's what Murray's mission with Laughton should be.
- TheGreat28

I don't know that Laughton's defensive game is already NHL level. I did not state that they should ignore both sides of the puck. I said they should focus on using a player, and getting him better in the mold and role that they think he is going to be best at, at the NHL level.

How many NHL teams had 3rd line centers with 50 points last year? 50+ points is a 2nd lne center number, not 3rd line.

yeah you keep felating over #14. negative nancy. sure why not.
who will have the better career #14 or danius zubrus in your opinion.
- rinaldo

Never once have a stroked my man meat back and forth to orgasm while thinking of Sean Couturier. You have me confused with Linda Ronstadt.

People focus on the occasional mistake rather than the constant solid play. They also forget that Coburn plays the toughest minutes against the hardest competion on a nightly basis. If Coburn were to go down, they're a lottery team.
- BiggE

People also act like Shea Weber never allows goals when he is on the ice. If I recall correctly he was a -2. Why isnt he bashed so hard? I know Coburn and Amac and all of them are not Weber class but lets get real, no defenseman is perfect.

His track record as a developmental coach is kind of iffy.


- Tomahawk

No it is not.

Yeah, people give him credit for setting the table for the Kings, but it's easy to forget that he was fired because he couldn't get that group to put the puck in the net... despite a lot of good players at his disposal.
- Tomahawk

That is true, that they did have trouble scoring under Murray. But the sound defense and puck pressure game, and the habits that each player plays with. Along with being a team where every single player buys into playing the right way, was instilled under Murray.

Very defensive oriented is not a system. It is a general description of style. All of the best teams in the league play with an enphasis on taking care of the defensive side and pressuring the puck. I don't know what exact system Murray incorporates iwth the Phantoms. But it wouldn't suprise me if it was the same as the Flyers use. I think there are some misconceptions bieng applied here, about Murray as a coach.
- MJL

All I'm saying is that I don't believe he's getting the most out his players and I haven't seen much development with the guys he's worked with.

We'll see what happens this season when he has some talent to work with. I just don't understand how a group of players can improve, but the team never gets any better. I know this is about player development, but I've never seen a group of players improve, but the team still stinks.

I am sure this was posted, but apparently Simmonds is at practice today per carchidi.
- Hextall271

First I've read about it.

People always just say "well, he's teaching them to be defensively responsible."

I don't understand how constantly playing defense is going to help a player's development. They need to develop a two-way game and learn how to be productive offensively while being responsible defensively.
- PhillySportsGuy

What makes you think that the young players are down there just constantly playing defense?

Colton Orr waived... Leafs and Flyers w/o tough guys... is this a sign of progress?
- Tomahawk

Or is it a sign of the zombie apocalypse?