Havlat and Clowe in their top 9. Zajac as 1C.

Such a shame Lou screwed up Kovalchuk so badly.
- Feanor

They're improved!

I'm not even a pessimist. I said for all of last season they were a playoff team, and stuck by it. I don't even think they're that bad now, but that other teams in the division improved while they pretty much stayed lateral.

The Rangers stayed roughly the same. Columbus looked better but the injuries may hurt them. The Devils and Isles improved.
- Jsaquella

I think they'll also make the playoffs in a similar spot they did last season.

LET'S GO FLYERS

I think the Devils are relying too much on some seriously aging forwards, but they've seemed done before and bounced back so who knows
- BiggE

There is a good bit of age up front, no doubt. But they missed the playoffs by 5 points last year, with Brodeur playing 39 games and being well below average. That could easily have cost them 5 points. Schneider had a save % 20 points higher and a GAA half a goal lower.

They have 4 good young defensemen they are working in, behind Greene, Salvador and Zdlicky in Larsson, Merrill, Severson and Gelinas. That's a pretty solid, very mobile group of players.

There is a good bit of age up front, no doubt. But they missed the playoffs by 5 points last year, with Brodeur playing 39 games and being well below average. That could easily have cost them 5 points. Schneider had a save % 20 points higher and a GAA half a goal lower.

They have 4 good young defensemen they are working in, behind Greene, Salvador and Zdlicky in Larsson, Merrill, Severson and Gelinas. That's a pretty solid, very mobile group of players.
- Jsaquella

And it's also a defense that lacks a top defense pairing. And young defenseman, despite their mobility, can sometimes struggle.

And I'm quite sure that the pessimists among the Flyers fans would look at that defense, if it was the Flyers defense, in that very light.

And I think the Flyers defenseman as a whole, are better then the Devils. And Mason is as good as Schneider is. And I think the Flyers have a superior group of forwards.

IF, if, if....

If Steve Mason can come close to repeating last year or better it.

If the Flyers get consistent play from guys who have been notoriously inconsistent for the past few years in MDZ & Luke Schenn

If Andrew MacDonald can play top pair minutes at an effective level-which he couldn't last year in New York

If Braydon Coburn can anchor a top pair and not struggle with consistency

If RJ Umberger and Vinny Lecavalier can bounce back, despite the fact that neither was a good 5 on 5 player last year. They're arguably worse at 5 on 5 this year than last, losing Hartnell and Timonen for Umberger and MDZ

If a team that hasn't been able to consistently play a good 200 foot game for the past 3 years suddenly learns how to do it

If a team that has had horrible gap control for at least the last two seasons suddenly fixes it

Whole lot of ifs

I'm not saying that they won;t make the playoffs. I'm saying that the division is wide open, and that the Flyers, while talented, will still need a whole lot of things to go right to make the playoffs.

I've said it numerous times. They could finish second and I wouldn't be surprised. they could finish 7th and I wouldn't be surprised. They're not a lock for the playoffs. They'll be in the fight for them, but they're not a shoo in.

There is a good bit of age up front, no doubt. But they missed the playoffs by 5 points last year, with Brodeur playing 39 games and being well below average. That could easily have cost them 5 points. Schneider had a save % 20 points higher and a GAA half a goal lower.

They have 4 good young defensemen they are working in, behind Greene, Salvador and Zdlicky in Larsson, Merrill, Severson and Gelinas. That's a pretty solid, very mobile group of players.
- Jsaquella

All true, OTOH, Jagr's soon to be 43 year old body could break down, Elias at 38 could lose a step, and if those 2 don't produce, they could be on the wrong end of a lot of 2-1 games. They're not horrible, just mediocre. I think theyfinish with 85-88 pts

IF, if, if....

If Steve Mason can come close to repeating last year or better it.

If the Flyers get consistent play from guys who have been notoriously inconsistent for the past few years in MDZ & Luke Schenn

If Andrew MacDonald can play top pair minutes at an effective level-which he couldn't last year in New York

If Braydon Coburn can anchor a top pair and not struggle with consistency

If RJ Umberger and Vinny Lecavalier can bounce back, despite the fact that neither was a good 5 on 5 player last year. They're arguably worse at 5 on 5 this year than last, losing Hartnell and Timonen for Umberger and MDZ

If a team that hasn't been able to consistently play a good 200 foot game for the past 3 years suddenly learns how to do it

If a team that has had horrible gap control for at least the last two seasons suddenly fixes it

Whole lot of ifs

I'm not saying that they won;t make the playoffs. I'm saying that the division is wide open, and that the Flyers, while talented, will still need a whole lot of things to go right to make the playoffs.

I've said it numerous times. They could finish second and I wouldn't be surprised. they could finish 7th and I wouldn't be surprised. They're not a lock for the playoffs. They'll be in the fight for them, but they're not a shoo in.
- Jsaquella

you're killing the vibes, man.

how we supposed to win the shiva with those vibes?

All true, OTOH, Jagr's soon to be 43 year old body could break down, Elias at 38 could lose a step, and if those 2 don't produce, they could be on the wrong end of a lot of 2-1 games. They're not horrible, just mediocre. I think theyfinish with 85-88 pts
- BiggE

Absolutely. The same can be said for pretty much every team in the division. I just find it funny that we can pick apart NJ or NYI or Columbus and seem to blindly accept that the Flyers warts will dissolve and not be an issue.

you're killing the vibes, man.

how we supposed to win the shiva with those vibes?
- KGBflyers10

I kidnapped the real Shiva. She's in my basement.

IF, if, if....

If Steve Mason can come close to repeating last year or better it.

If the Flyers get consistent play from guys who have been notoriously inconsistent for the past few years in MDZ & Luke Schenn

If Andrew MacDonald can play top pair minutes at an effective level-which he couldn't last year in New York

If Braydon Coburn can anchor a top pair and not struggle with consistency

If RJ Umberger and Vinny Lecavalier can bounce back, despite the fact that neither was a good 5 on 5 player last year

If a team that hasn't been able to consistently play a good 200 foot game for the past 3 years suddenly learns how to do it

If a team that has had horrible gap control for at least the last two seasons suddenly fixes it

Whole lot of ifs

I'm not saying that they won;t make the playoffs. I'm saying that the division is wide open, and that the Flyers, while talented, will still need a whole lot of things to go right to make the playoffs.

I've said it numerous times. They could finish second and I wouldn't be surprised. they could finish 7th and I wouldn't be surprised. They're not a lock for the playoffs. They'll be in the fight for them, but they're not a shoo in.
- Jsaquella

Most teams have a bunch of ifs, other then the true top contenders. That's why they call those team's contenders, and other team's playoff teams, or teams that aren't considered favorites to make the playoffs.

And I would have no problem with discussing the ifs of the team, if the non if's if you will, were given equal time and consideration. Despite the ifs, this team has a lot going for it, and a lot of good players. Which is why they had that quality record after Berube took over. And even though they didn't play as well as they could of in the Ranger series, they still took them to 7 games.

They're so bad that they had a 42-30-10 record last year, and that's with a 1-7 start. So after those 8 games, this team and all the ifs, went 41-23-10! With it's horrible gap control!

This just in:

Playing games definitively answers the infinite number of "if's" all 30 teams have.


Apparently the best one gets some sort of cup too.

You guys are forgetting we have the best player in the world.

Absolutely. The same can be said for pretty much every team in the division. I just find it funny that we can pick apart NJ or NYI or Columbus and seem to blindly accept that the Flyers warts will dissolve and not be an issue.
- Jsaquella

Nobody has blindly accepted that the Flyers warts will dissolve. And that they don't have some issues. But from some sources, you'd think that all they have is warts and issues! They made the playoffs last year. After a 1-7 start they racked up a pretty good record. That wouldn't have happened if they didn't have a good team.

You guys are forgetting we have the best player in the world.
- KGBflyers10

It was such a simpler time then.

This just in:

Playing games definitively answers the infinite number of "if's" all 30 teams have.


Apparently the best one gets some sort of cup too.
- hereticpride

C'mon, Bob McKenzie said that the Devils and Isles could pass the Flyers. And the Flyers have warts!

Absolutely. The same can be said for pretty much every team in the division. I just find it funny that we can pick apart NJ or NYI or Columbus and seem to blindly accept that the Flyers warts will dissolve and not be an issue.
- Jsaquella

Agreed, I think they finish 3rd but they could easily slip lower. I think all 3 NY area teams, the Caps, Jackets and Flyers all end up with 85-97 points. Even the Pens, who I think will finish 1st, probably won't exceed 105 pts max.

IMO, the only sure bet is Carolina finishing last, they will be lucky to break 75 pts

Agreed, I think they finish 3rd but they could easily slip lower. I think all 3 NY area teams, the Caps, Jackets and Flyers all end up with 85-97 points. Even the Pens, who I think will finish 1st, probably won't exceed 105 pts max.

IMO, the only sure bet is Carolina finishing last, they will be lucky to break 75 pts
- BiggE

That's exactly how I see it. The Flyers could finish anywhere from 2-7th. Just like the NY teams, NJ, Columbus and even Washington. I still think Pittbsburgh wins the division and Carolina is last. Outside of that, I could see anything happening.

I'm not trashing the Flyers. I'm simply saying that too many seem to be ignore the Flyers flaws and overstating the flaws of the other divisional teams. Somehow that turned into me saying the Flyers suck

I had Philly as a bubble team but as it turns out, there are teams I like a lot less then the Flyers heading into this season.

1. New York Rangers
2. Tampa Bay Lightning
3. Pittsburgh Penguins
4. Boston Bruins
5. Washington Capitals
6. Philadelphia Flyers
7. New York Islanders
8. Columbus Blue Jackets

New Jersey Devils
Montreal Canadiens
Buffalo Sabers
Toronto Maple Leafs
Detroit Red Wings
Florida Panthers
Ottawa Senators
Carolina Hurricanes

To me the Flyers are still a very young team. If a more vet heavy team, say the Devils, pass them this year then so be it. Our window is not this year and hell, it probably isn't next year either. I'll worry when I see the Panthers and Sabres inching up on us.

That's exactly how I see it. The Flyers could finish anywhere from 2-7th. Just like the NY teams, NJ, Columbus and even Washington. I still think Pittbsburgh wins the division and Carolina is last. Outside of that, I could see anything happening.

I'm not trashing the Flyers. I'm simply saying that too many seem to be ignore the Flyers flaws and overstating the flaws of the other divisional teams. Somehow that turned into me saying the Flyers suck
- Jsaquella

No it's the opposite. Your posts have been minimizing and ignoring the flaws of other teams. And ignoring the ways that the Flyers can possibly get better from last year. Despite the loss of Timonen. How many times have you stated that the Flyers stayed the same, while other teams got better?

Yeah, McKenzie knows nothing. Ek is right, Flyers are a lock for second. We'll waive that magic wand and correct the gap problems and puck support issues that have existed for the last 3-5 seasons, no sweat.

And those 5 on 5 issues, no worry at all. poop, I'm going to get my beach chair set up on Broad St for the parade in June
- Jsaquella

Well excuuuuse me... Damn who poop in your Cheerios this morning?

To be the Flyers are still a very young team. If a more vet heavily team, say the Devils, pass them this year then so be it. Our window is not this year and hell, it probably isn't next year either. I'll worry when I see the Panthers and Sabres inching up on us.
- hereticpride

Agreed 100%. I'm not especially upset if they miss the playoffs this year, because the real window is the future. They shouldn't be having a fire sale or anything, but if they're serious about being patient and really developing, one down season shouldn't be anything more than a bump in the road.

And honestly, they still have a decent shot at the playoffs anyhow.

You people are killing me with your mediocrity.

To be the Flyers are still a very young team. If a more vet heavily team, say the Devils, pass them this year then so be it. Our window is not this year and hell, it probably isn't next year either. I'll worry when I see the Panthers and Sabres inching up on us.
- hereticpride

You know, the Devils are a team that in the past has played a strong team game, and won that way. But I think their defense is no better then the Flyers. If Mason plays as he did last year, he's just as good as Schnieder. And the Flyers have a superior group of forwards by far. Their best player is 43, and their #1 center is Travis Zajac.
So I can come up with the same list of ifs about the Devils. But they're better!

None of it matters! The games played is what matters. Maybe the Flyers will bomb this year, and the Devils will go to the Finals. Only one way to find out. Drop the puck.