Last year with Maatta
- dbell646

Again not exactly true with the theme of this discussion. He had played years in the North American game before the jump to the NHL. He also was drafted in 2012 and started his NHL career in 2013. Kapanen would have been 2014 and 2014. Slight difference, but he never played the game this physical over a long period of time. Even if he impressed at the 9 game mark, could he handle the entire grind of the season? (and would that grind stunt his growth as a player?)

Sundqvist plays in the Swedish elite league, but that doesn't mean his game is even near ready. He was showing during the preseason that he had what it takes to hang in there, he wasn't blowing anyone away. Let his skills develop and use him next season.
Same with Kap.

So tell me what rookie lines up with Toews and Stamkos and Kane?
- usethe1-2-2

Evander or Patrick?

Sundqvist plays in the Swedish elite league, but that doesn't mean his game is even near ready. He was showing during the preseason that he had what it takes to hang in there, he wasn't blowing anyone away. Let his skills develop and use him next season.
Same with Kap.

So tell me what rookie lines up with Toews and Stamkos and Kane?
- usethe1-2-2

I said you put top rookies with those type of players. And I believe drouin lined up with stamkos or st.louis in first 9 games before being sent down.. they gave him a chance at least

Evander or Patrick?
- dbell646

You rotten pest

Again not exactly true with the theme of this discussion. He had played years in the North American game before the jump to the NHL. He also was drafted in 2012 and started his NHL career in 2013. Kapanen would have been 2014 and 2014. Slight difference, but he never played the game this physical over a long period of time. Even if he impressed at the 9 game mark, could he handle the entire grind of the season? (and would that grind stunt his growth as a player?)
- usethe1-2-2

No his question was what legit rookie made the team out of camp. If I look up the definition of a legit rookie Maatta is well within that definition. No pro experience made him a rookie. Am I wrong?

I said you put top rookies with those type of players. And I believe drouin lined up with stamkos or st.louis in first 9 games before being sent down.. they gave him a chance at least
- nh4442

And he wasn't close to ready. He even played north american hockey before trying out. Kapanen wasn't close to that level.

Last year with Maatta
- dbell646

HEY finish reading the post. I said don't use him bc we had too many injuries

No his question was what legit rookie made the team out of camp. If I look up the definition of a legit rookie Maatta is well within that definition. No pro experience made him a rookie. Am I wrong?
- dbell646

Yes, you picked one tiny little semantic out of an entire argument.

And he wasn't close to ready. He even played north american hockey before trying out. Kapanen wasn't close to that level.
- usethe1-2-2

But he got a 9 game... that's my point. It seems the organization is so determined to start 9-0 that they won't even see if a rookie has what it takes to stick around when on a legit line with stars... and be 5-4 in first 9 games...

They hold onto guys like adams and scuds like noone can bring what they bring to a team instead of admitting they messed up by signing them and going there separate ways..

It just irks me...

But he got a 9 game... that's my point. It seems the organization is so determined to start 9-0 that they won't even see if a rookie has what it takes to stick around when on a legit line with stars... and be 5-4 in first 9 games...

They hold onto guys like adams and scuds like noone can bring what they bring to a team instead of admitting they messed up by signing them and going there separate ways..

It just irks me...
- nh4442

But again, this organization is not doing that. They have to make up for the last one's mistakes. You just can't make contracts vanish to open up spots. The roster isn't close to set. The one who needs to be patient is you though. You are judging them before they have even produced a roster for game day.

But he got a 9 game... that's my point. It seems the organization is so determined to start 9-0 that they won't even see if a rookie has what it takes to stick around when on a legit line with stars... and be 5-4 in first 9 games...

They hold onto guys like adams and scuds like noone can bring what they bring to a team instead of admitting they messed up by signing them and going there separate ways..

It just irks me...
- nh4442

sadly, waiving Adams and Scuds isn't possible. With waiving Adams, because of the 35+ rule, when no one claims him, it would only save 100k against the cap. With such little cap room, waiving him would not give you enough cap space to bring up his replacement.

But he got a 9 game... that's my point. It seems the organization is so determined to start 9-0 that they won't even see if a rookie has what it takes to stick around when on a legit line with stars... and be 5-4 in first 9 games...

They hold onto guys like adams and scuds like noone can bring what they bring to a team instead of admitting they messed up by signing them and going there separate ways..

It just irks me...
- nh4442

While I agree, and I never thought bring Scuds back was a good idea, Adams makes what $600k? Drop in the bucket, I believe Scuds has a LNMC who exactly wants to take on our garbage Dman and his 3.75 cap? Even if it's just a 7th pick, in reality Scuds most likely is still better than all but 1 or 2 prospects at this point. I am hoping Scuds has a breakout year and can up his value and be moved, but Martin will be off the books at some point this year or next year so that will relieve the cap a bit.

But again, this organization is not doing that. They have to make up for the last one's mistakes. You just can't make contracts vanish to open up spots. The roster isn't close to set. The one who needs to be patient is you though. You are judging them before they have even produced a roster for game day.
- usethe1-2-2

Fair counterpoint all the way around.

sadly, waiving Adams and Scuds isn't possible. With waiving Adams, because of the 35+ rule, when no one claims him, it would only save 100k against the cap. With such little cap room, waiving him would not give you enough cap space to bring up his replacement.
- cap1681

Honestly, I think there is another GM out there that would scoop him up. But either way, the cap savings is minimal.

But again, this organization is not doing that. They have to make up for the last one's mistakes. You just can't make contracts vanish to open up spots. The roster isn't close to set. The one who needs to be patient is you though. You are judging them before they have even produced a roster for game day.
- usethe1-2-2

Cmon barring a trade today we know ebbett sill and chorney will b back up and b on roster along with adams and scuds...

It's not rocket science. My question is the why part. Just bc they r on 2 way contracts? Bc it wasn't bc of their preseason play...

I guess my thinking is there's no best way to learn and grow as a rookie player in a system then to be in that system..not when you are not even in the system. I figure kap and sund would benefit playing and practicing with geno and sid and the pens then in Finland amd Sweden.

I don't know if I get Ebbett sticking around... I guess with Malkin questionable as a center or even playing, Ebbett can slide in, but you could just as easy go with Crosby/Sutter/Goc/Sill as your centers.

I'm not a big fan of Sill, but if he plays instead of Adams, that's a win for me.

I don't know... whatever... It will be a matter of time before some guys are banged up, and we're seeing different guys from Wilkes-Barre rotated in.

I'm just glad that hockey is back.

While I agree, and I never thought bring Scuds back was a good idea, Adams makes what $600k? Drop in the bucket, I believe Scuds has a LNMC who exactly wants to take on our garbage Dman and his 3.75 cap? Even if it's just a 7th pick, in reality Scuds most likely is still better than all but 1 or 2 prospects at this point. I am hoping Scuds has a breakout year and can up his value and be moved, but Martin will be off the books at some point this year or next year so that will relieve the cap a bit.
- sammy87

As much as I wanted to trade away martin in past yrs bc his cap didn't equal his play.. I would rather keep Martin and trade scuds any day of the week and twice on sundays...

Cmon barring a trade today we know ebbett sill and chorney will b back up and b on roster along with adams and scuds...

It's not rocket science. My question is the why part. Just bc they r on 2 way contracts? Bc it wasn't bc of their preseason play...

I guess my thinking is there's no best way to learn and grow as a rookie player in a system then to be in that system..not when you are not even in the system. I figure kap and sund would benefit playing and practicing with geno and sid and the pens then in Finland amd Sweden.
- nh4442

That would be the case if their overall game was ready for the NHL, but that wasn't the case. Sundqvist was going to be a fourth liner. It benefits him greatly to be a 2nd liner in Sweden over a fourth liner here. Kapanen, for the most part, just isn't physically ready. Which is normal, more normal than an 18 year old starting right away.

If their games were NHL ready, and their bodies for that matter, then your point would be correct; however, that did not seem to be the case.

Also, does anyone have a real problem if Chorney plays over Scuds for the time being? I thought he had a great camp.

That would be the case if their overall game was ready for the NHL, but that wasn't the case. Sundqvist was going to be a fourth liner. It benefits him greatly to be a 2nd liner in Sweden over a fourth liner here. Kapanen, for the most part, just isn't physically ready. Which is normal, more normal than an 18 year old starting right away.

If their games were NHL ready, and their bodies for that matter, then your point would be correct; however, that did not seem to be the case.
- usethe1-2-2

Good point about 4th line compared to 2nd line mins..

But wouldn't you still try to give them 9 games... then send them to Europe? Bc ebbett sill are both 2 way and don't need to go through waiver so after 9 games then bring them up

Honestly I wish they were in wbs so I could go watch them..
Megna sundqvist kapanen line would be sweet in wbs...

Also, does anyone have a real problem if Chorney plays over Scuds for the time being? I thought he had a great camp.
- usethe1-2-2

Hell no. But your not putting 3.3mil on the bench.. just like gunner said last yr your not putting 3.3mil on the 3rd line d pairing... oh wait

HEY finish reading the post. I said don't use him bc we had too many injuries
- nh4442

Staal

Staal
- dbell646

That's who I was thinking...what was that 7 yrs ago... see if GMJR would have gotten Hornqvist and a 2nd rdr (44th overall) we wouldn't have spaling amd be in this mess haha

As much as I wanted to trade away martin in past yrs bc his cap didn't equal his play.. I would rather keep Martin and trade scuds any day of the week and twice on sundays...
- nh4442

I don't think anyone would disagree with you. But all indications say Martin has no interest in staying and with Ehroff who is 2 years younger and better, I don't think it would be smart to have 1/2 of your D in their mid 30's. Martin will walk, Scuds will try to be moved, not sure if it's possible or not.

Cmon barring a trade today we know ebbett sill and chorney will b back up and b on roster along with adams and scuds...

It's not rocket science. My question is the why part. Just bc they r on 2 way contracts? Bc it wasn't bc of their preseason play...

I guess my thinking is there's no best way to learn and grow as a rookie player in a system then to be in that system..not when you are not even in the system. I figure kap and sund would benefit playing and practicing with geno and sid and the pens then in Finland amd Sweden.
- nh4442

Sundqvist would benefit from going to Wilkes-Barre, but that can't happen due to his contract. Those guys spent the last month practicing with then Pens, I can't see how a few more weeks would make much of a difference.

As far as Kapenen, his deficiencies are purely physical... Another year will likely do him wonders. He sees the game well, he has the skill, and with his father as a role model, his maturity as a pro is ahead of most kids his age.

Both those leagues end in March, chances are those two will be in Wilkes-Barre for the end of the season.