What is that belief based on?
- MJL

Watching him play, speaking with columbus fans, reading articles and analyzing advanced stats.

Watching him play, speaking with columbus fans, reading articles and analyzing advanced stats.
- PhillySportsGuy

Heresay.
Past seasons.
Context.

Edit: Benefit of the doubt.

No, I was actually right there with you. If they wanted to move on from Hartnell, I get it. But the way it went down, it just seems like there had to be a better way.
- jmatchett383

I know. I would have understood a straight salary dump or a trade for an overpaid player whose contract expires in a year.

I just never understood downgrading the position in order to save 2 years on the deal. It just didn't seem worth it to me.

Watching him play, speaking with columbus fans, reading articles and analyzing advanced stats.
- PhillySportsGuy

So you completely discount the injury issues he had last year, and the possibiity that if he's healthy, he can bounce back?

Articles, and speaking with Columbus fans, can be thrown out the window. Advanced stats can only tell you what happened, not why it happened. And they cannot point to him not being a good player anymore. Especially when he wasn't healthy last year.

Heresay.
Past seasons.
Context.

Edit: Benefit of the doubt.
- jmatchett383

I'm sure his way of "knowing the Flyers would never acquire an ineffective player" is much more trustworthy though.

So you completely discount the injury issues he had last year, and the possibiity that if he's healthy, he can bounce back?

Articles, and speaking with Columbus fans, can be thrown out the window. Advanced stats can only tell you what happened, not why it happened. And they cannot point to him not being a good player anymore. Especially when he wasn't healthy last year.
- MJL

I don't discount them. I just don't think he's a very effective player even when healthy.

So you completely discount the injury issues he had last year, and the possibiity that if he's healthy, he can bounce back?
- MJL

Past seasons.
Benefit of the doubt.

Articles, and speaking with Columbus fans, can be thrown out the window.
- MJL

Heresay.

Advanced stats can only tell you what happened, not why it happened.
- MJL

Context.

And they cannot point to him not being a good player anymore. Especially when he wasn't healthy last year.
- MJL

Past seasons.
Benefit of the doubt.

Same old rhetoric, very easy to predict.

I don't discount them. I just don't think he's a very effective player even when healthy.
- PhillySportsGuy

Well he's apparently healthy, and we're going to find out how good of a player he is.

I don't discount them. I just don't think he's a very effective player even when healthy.
- PhillySportsGuy

I hope Umberger scores 2 goals, including the GW goal to extinguish your doubt.

I hope Umberger scores 2 goals, including the GW goal to extinguish your doubt.
- GOA88

I hope he scores 80 goals, 200 points, and helps the Flyers win the Cup this year. I really do.

I expect to divide those totals by about 5, though, at best.

I'm sure his way of "knowing the Flyers would never acquire an ineffective player" is much more trustworthy though.
- PhillySportsGuy

I would trust the Flyers scouting department and pro hockey personell over information found in articles, comments from random fans, and advance statistics that you can make say whatever you want them to say.

But of course, none of that points factually to what kind of player Umberger will be this year for the Flyers. To know that, we have to wait for the games to be played.

Umberger's not going to score a lot of points getting 3rd line minutes and maybe some 2nd unit PP time. What I want to see from him is solid, disciplined play at ES and on the PK. From what I saw in the preseason he's capable of that.

I hope Umberger scores 2 goals, including the GW goal to extinguish your doubt.
- GOA88

I hope so too. I hope he becomes a great player for this team. I'll be happy to admit I was wrong.

Capgeek just updated.

http://www.capgeek.com/

White and Pronger on LTIR.

http://www.capgeek.com/flyers/transactions/

Umberger's not going to score a lot of points getting 3rd line minutes and maybe some 2nd unit PP time. What I want to see from him is solid, disciplined play at ES and on the PK.
- Feanor

I agree, although if that line plays well, their minutes could be boosted. I think it's going to fluctuate over the season. Game to game.

Well he's apparently healthy, and we're going to find out how good of a player he is.
- MJL

We will. And I'm sure you'll interpret things differently than I do.

Watching him play, speaking with columbus fans, reading articles and analyzing advanced stats.
- PhillySportsGuy

In terms of point production only, his season last year was below his career points per game mark but higher than the year before (although that was the shortened season). Last year he averaged 0.46 points per game, the year before he averaged 0.38 and his career average is 0.54. There has been a clear drop off since 2010-11 when he averaged 0.70 ppg. There's also a span of 4 years where he was well above his career average from 2007-08 to 2010-11. He averaged 0.65 ppg in that span.

My thinking is that, if healthy and in a role that warrants it, he will move closer to his career average in ppg aka he will regress toward the mean. However, he may not get the ice time to do so.

I know. I would have understood a straight salary dump or a trade for an overpaid player whose contract expires in a year.

I just never understood downgrading the position in order to save 2 years on the deal. It just didn't seem worth it to me.
- PhillySportsGuy

They're likely looking at getting a stop gap and having cap room to re-sign Voracek, Couturier & B. Schenn in a couple years.

There's not a top flight UFA defenseman next summer. So no need for immediate space in that regard. Just hope Umberger can be solid. The reports from Columbus, the numbers and the player's own admission say he was awful last season.

Capgeek just updated.

http://www.capgeek.com/

White and Pronger on LTIR.

http://www.capgeek.com/flyers/transactions/
- Feanor

They really had no other choice. Sucks to have to waste $55K

I don't understand what Boston did. They have 26 players on their roster but only one is on LTIR? I thought the roster limit was 23.

Umberger's not going to score a lot of points getting 3rd line minutes and maybe some 2nd unit PP time. What I want to see from him is solid, disciplined play at ES and on the PK. From what I saw in the preseason he's capable of that.
- Feanor

There's no place for your reasonable statements here!

We will. And I'm sure you'll interpret things differently than I do.
- PhillySportsGuy

Well I know one thing, there won't be an preconceived bias in my interpretation of his play. And I'm going to actually give him a chance to actually play a game when he's healthy, before I label him as not being a good player anymore.

And you may wind up being right, and if that's the case, I'll have no issue saying that you were. But you also may not be right.

Capgeek just updated.

http://www.capgeek.com/

White and Pronger on LTIR.

http://www.capgeek.com/flyers/transactions/
- Feanor

It's funny to me that the top ten teams in payroll right now all have like no cap space to work with

I don't understand what Boston did. They have 26 players on their roster but only one is on LTIR? I thought the roster limit was 23.
- Feanor

They have a couple on regular IR. Krejci and Campbell, for instance are both on regular IR, not LTIR. Count against cap, not roster limit

There's no place for your reasonable statements here!
- mcefalu

Agreed. He will either be an invaluable asset to the team's glorious present and future, or the worst player ever.