The stats don't agree with you. Kimmo-Coburn had by far the best possession numbers of any pairing on the team, similar to other top pairing around the league. They also logged the most minutes on one of the league's best PK units.
- Feanor

Yeah, definitely detected an under-appreciation for 44-5 in that post. Do I recall correctly that they were a particularly effective pairing (by the numbers) in denying zone entries?

Has anybody taken the drivers seat in the let's just be terrible for McDavid bus ?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20152ALLSASAll&viewName=summary&sort=plusMinus&pg=17

Schenn -6
Del Zotto -5
Giroux -5
Raffl -4
Voracek -4

I'd say we're off to a fabulous start again!
- MrBigglesworth

Sometimes this stat doesn't tell the story accurately, but I think it sums up the first two games very well.

The lack of a top pairing defensemen is a lack of depth from many perspectives. And Timonen and Coburn were not that last year. Both were middle pairing guys at best. It's not the same as removing a player like Weber or Doughty.

Even so, the Flyers defense still doesn't have a good mix, even with Timonen and Coburn in the lineup. To me, that is part and parcel of depth.
- NickTheKid87

I've been hoping for a legit defensive shake up for a couple seasons now - this isn't the first season they've been horrible... I don't care that Coburn is our best dman (that's like being the tallest midget IMO cause he's not THAT good when you compare him to dmen around the league). If Edmonton will give us 3 second round picks again I'm sending him off. Grossmann and Schenn are so bad its a ridiculous waste of time to even argue advanced stats re: these two. I'd rather struggle with bringing up some of the young guys or even a few waiver wire guys that cost $1 million to bridge the gap - at least that'd be an excuse to be this bad. The flyers should not be tying up this much cap space on the defense (or lack thereof) we currently have. End vent

"Metric" is a poor term to use here ... because by all analytics metrics, MacDonald is awful.
- gollum

He looked awful last night.

Has anybody taken the drivers seat in the let's just be terrible for McDavid bus ?
- ob18

Im the owner of the bus. All aboard!!!

how many top 2 legitimate NHL defenceman do they have in your estimation???
- landros 2

Magic 8 ball says, "Outlook looks much brighter in 2016"

He's turned this into an argument of semantics. He's defining depth one way and the rest of us are defining it differently. He will keep arguing this until the end of time so best not to indulge him. Arguing semantics should be avoided unless you're having a debate specifically about semantics.
- NickTheKid87

Oh, I've turned this into a semantics argument!

I agree it is a semantics argument. But losing two top defensman, and still being able to ice 6 experienced NHL defenseman isn't having depth!

I think we all agree that they lack a top pairing, even before the Coburn injury.

Beat me to it. He is doing his usual and finding the most simple flaw in the topic of choice.

Literally, by definition alone, the flyers have depth at defense. Every single team in the NHL, AHL, CHL, WHPJLMNOPHL has defensive depth. Hell the only team I can ever remember not having defensive depth in a literal sense would be the 04 Flyers who had to use Sami Kapanen as a d-man.


But, the rest of us are using the hockey related idea behind depth.


All in all. Flyers dont have hockey depth at defense. I win. Good day.
- jak521

The Hockey related idea of depth is having available experienced NHL defenseman to add to the lineup when injuries occur. The Flyers iced 6 experienced NHL defensman last night, even though they don't have Coburn and Timonen available.

That is the definition of depth. And any fans opinion of those players, and how good they are perceived, isn't a factor. Because then we're dealing in varying opinions of the players.

the Pronger appointment has filled me with glee

I can't wait until he suspends his first Penguin, the gnashing and spewing of hate will be marvelous

Guess all the Coburn haters are going to get a taste of just how important Coburn is to the team.

Michael Del Zotto

2 games, and I've already seen enough. Dude gets caught up ice about once every 2 shifts and leads to an odd-man rush. Happened to Streit, once, and he usually is able to get puck control when he pinches. MDZ came drifting back into the picture after a goal on at least 2 goals against last night.
- jmatchett383

On the Ryder goal, I think Del Zotto made a good pinch. He blocked the puck along the wall. Unfortunately, the puck bounced right to Greene I beleive who moved the puck up. Umberger was the culprit on that play, as he failed to pick up the Ryder as the trailer.

Guess all the Coburn haters are going to get a taste of just how important Coburn is to the team.
- nastyflyergirl

Don't you understand!? We would have lost by 12 more goals if he played!

So which teams have actually depth? Take the three best defensemen out of any NHL team over a three year period and let me know what you end up with.

Or just take out their top two guys from last season.
- Feanor

The Rags just lost Dan Boyle last night to a broken hand. Out 4-6 weeks. Does the fact they have McDonagh, Girardi, and Staal help ease the blow of Boyle being out long term?

Are the Rags going to add a bum like Schultz to their lineup to replace Boyle? I'm not even sure who their 7th dman is.

so capgeek has Del Zotto as a RFA. interesting. thought because he was let go by Nashville he would be a UFA. guess that a plus for the Flyers if he regains his game

1) trade coby for anything.
2) trade macdonald for anything.
3) trade streit for anything.
4) give grossman away for free.
5) keep MDZ and L schenn for whipping boy needs
6) call up entire ahl d
7) plan parade for stanley cup win....

all in agreement say I.....or 1st overall pick...win win

Guess all the Coburn haters are going to get a taste of just how important Coburn is to the team.
- nastyflyergirl

They got a taste last night.

And it had some depth to it.

Don't you understand!? We would have lost by 12 more goals if he played!
- PhillySportsGuy

I honestly don't get the hate. I mean, no he isn't perfect and he does tend to make those "Oh Coburn" plays but all in all he is a good NHL dman with size and skating ability who chews up big minutes. Didn't get the Carle hate either.

They got a taste last night.

And it had some depth to it.
- tangent_man

rimshot.gif

Oh, I've turned this into a semantics argument!

I agree it is a semantics argument. But losing two top defensman, and still being able to ice 6 experienced NHL defenseman isn't having depth!

I think we all agree that they lack a top pairing, even before the Coburn injury.
- MJL

Yes, the lack of a top pairing hurts. It's possible to build a good team without one, like the Devils in 2011-12. Their commitment and actual ability to play team defense was a big part of their success. The Flyers don't that kind of roster though. At least not at the moment.

The Rags just lost Dan Boyle last night to a broken hand. Out 4-6 weeks. Does the fact they have McDonagh, Girardi, and Staal help ease the blow of Boyle being out long term?

Are the Rags going to add a bum like Schultz to their lineup to replace Boyle? I'm not even sure who their 7th dman is.
- PLindbergh31

Matt Hunwick

rimshot.gif
- BulliesPhan87

If you had any commitment to the 200 ft game, you would have posted an actual gif.

You need to be traded. Yesterday.

When is ESPN going to do the "30 for 30" special on the robbery of JVR for L Schenn??
- flyerfan28

Two GM's involved in that trade, one got poopcanned, the other got promoted.
Hence, the Flyers won the trade!

They got a taste last night.

And it had some depth to it.
- tangent_man

Matt Hunwick
- jak521

Hunwick wears Nick Schultz pajamas.