i think you're right. some of the pieces here are not that good or not developing as they had hoped. probably not going to be bad enough to get a top 5 pick but it seems the plan is wait out the cap issues, clear come of the dead wood and in a couple years you have: an older-but-still-pretty-good G, Simmonds, the new beast, in his prime, jake, couts, raffl, laughton, ghost, morin, sanheim, haag and whoever else they add as the core......then add thru FA and the draft. i hope hextall can get it done and the fans can give him the time to clean up the mess he was left with
- hogweed

I dont think hextall cares what the fans think...the only person that can stop him from going through with that plan is snider....

He has 4 more years at 5.5. We pay AMac 5 .
I would take the Myers deal considering age / potential

I just want rid of Grossman. I was watching the game with 2 people last night who never watch the Flyers. They both pointed out how slow Grossman is and how easily he gets beaten.
I know a lot of people here like him, but he is a 6th Dman and that is it.
Schultz a 7 and MDZ an 8th
- 3flyerkids

MacDonald has played well for the most part in the three games. He and Schultz played pretty much like everyone else in that third period last night. Actually, I was pleasantly surprised by Schultz's play against the Devils and the first two periods last night.

Streit has made a host of low percentage plays in each of the last two games. The Flyers desperately need him to play the way he did down the stretch and the playoffs of last season. In Kimmo Timonen's absence, they needed

Grossmann is what he is. However -- and this says more about the Flyers' blueline group collectively than him -- he hasn't remotely been the Flyers' weakest D-man over the balance of the first three games. In light of how the Flyers have been hemorrhaging goals against, at least wait til 8 has been out for a goal against (he's been purely lucky about 3-4 times in the last two games) to be the one you single out .

Luke Schenn wasn't as hideous in the minus-five game against the Devils as the numbers suggest -- that would be tough to do -- but his pairing with Del Zotto is an absolute train wreck. Del Zotto has been the worse of the two, actually. Del Zotto's ice time last night tells you what Berube thought.

I'm not a huge fan of Berube, but I can't toss a ton of blame at him right now. They're a mess.

My biggest issue so far is I think he should have given Brayden Schenn more time with G & Voracek. That said, Schenn has been terrible, so even that is a conditional criticism.
- Jsaquella

agreed. for all the worry about hurting the confidence of players by sending them down i wonder what it was like to get dumped off the top line 1 game into the season

Yeah, 4 periods isn't enough.

I get the shuffle, situationally, during the Devils game, but the post-game smack talking about the player was unnecessary.
- tangent_man

Agreed, that kind of crap isn't helping.

Though, I really do think that the kid is better off at center, he clearly looks more comfortable there. Having VLC on the team is really a monkey wrench. Hopefully he keeps scoring and they can move him.

MacDonald has played well for the most part in the three games. He and Schultz played pretty much like everyone else in that third period last night. Actually, I was pleasantly surprised by Schultz's play against the Devils and the first two periods last night.

Streit has made a host of low percentage plays in each of the last two games. The Flyers desperately need him to play the way he did down the stretch and the playoffs of last season. In Kimmo Timonen's absence, they needed

Grossmann is what he is. However -- and this says more about the Flyers' blueline group collectively than him -- he hasn't remotely been the Flyers' weakest D-man over the balance of the first three games. In light of how the Flyers have been hemorrhaging goals against, at least wait til 8 has been out for a goal against (he's been purely lucky about 3-4 times in the last two games) to be the one you single out .

Luke Schenn wasn't as hideous in the minus-five game against the Devils as the numbers suggest -- that would be tough to do -- but his pairing with Del Zotto is an absolute train wreck. Del Zotto has been the worse of the two, actually. Del Zotto's ice time last night tells you what Berube thought.
- bmeltzer

Needs to go, asap

I shouldn't laugh but

I think folks are a bit harsh on Homer (yes the AMAC contract and other are questionable). The decline occurred with the Pronger injury. We are still paying for it now with a lack of prospects from the trade. This organisation has a Voodoo curse.
- coffee junkie

They are. Paul Holmgren was an overall good GM. He made mistakes, sure and some were really dumb mistakes. But he also made some really good moves and turned the worst team in the NHL into a legitimate Cup contender in the space of 4 years. That's pretty good.

The biggest issue with Holmgren was, or at least my biggest issue was, that he seemed to be reactive and lacked a long term plan. Too often he seemed to be dealing with an eye on the immediate future and not two years down the road

Yeah, 4 periods isn't enough.

I get the shuffle, situationally, during the Devils game, but the post-game smack talking about the player was unnecessary.
- tangent_man

Who was talking post game smack?
Was it the coach?
Missed this.

I dont think hextall cares what the fans think...the only person that can stop him from going through with that plan is snider....
- PhillaBully

i don't think any of these guys care what the fans think, i just meant i hope the fans stay more positive and have the big picture in mind

I'm not a huge fan of Berube, but I can't toss a ton of blame at him right now. They're a mess.

My biggest issue so far is I think he should have given Brayden Schenn more time with G & Voracek. That said, Schenn has been terrible, so even that is a conditional criticism.
- Jsaquella

Schenn just doesn't seem to be able to take that next step.....to me him and Couturier carry a lot of potential and the Flyers have hitched their wagon too. If they don't develop further the organization faces a huge setback.
Frankly, I'm not shocked at the start....disappointed, but not shocked.

Have the Flyers fired Berube and replaced him with Cote yet?

I'm not a huge fan of Berube, but I can't toss a ton of blame at him right now. They're a mess.

My biggest issue so far is I think he should have given Brayden Schenn more time with G & Voracek. That said, Schenn has been terrible, so even that is a conditional criticism.
- Jsaquella

Did Schenn even dress last night ?

Going into camp, I thought that the Flyers would finish with 92-95 points and anywhere from 3rd to 6th in the division. If Coburn is out for more than a few games, I'd lower that to 84-88 points and 6th or 7th in the division.
- BiggE

I still think the Metro (and the East, for all intents and purposes) is wide open. A worse than expected start doesn't change that. I still didn't think they were a shoo in playoff team and I still don't. But I'm not sold they'll be in the race for the right to draft McDavid or Eichel.

I shouldn't laugh but

I think folks are a bit harsh on Homer (yes the AMAC contract and other are questionable). The decline occurred with the Pronger injury. We are still paying for it now with a lack of prospects from the trade. This organisation has a Voodoo curse.
- coffee junkie

Since the advent of the Salary cap, the Flyers have only had 2 years where they didn't have an aging, big, bruising, highly paid, defenseman on a long term contract on LTIR. They are the only team to do so and no other team comes even close.

Holmgren got smoked with Pronger for several reasons.

1 .He traded the equivalent of 4 1st round draft picks + a 2nd for a 33 year old Pronger with 1 year left on his contract with no commitment from Pronger to stay longer.

Which forced him to do #2 :
2. Pronger who had no commitment to stay with the Flyers past the first year and had Holmgren backed into a corner because of the assets given to acquire him. Because of this he was able to extract one of the famed Golden Parachute contracts of that time that just about every team has come to regret and buyout. As a consequence Pronger would be on the books until he was 42.

3. Holmgren's failure to realize Pronger's contract was an over 35 contract and as such couldn't be written off when Pronger retired presumably after the big money years at the age of 40.

4. Pronger's eventual concussion retirement. While not his fault the signs were already there that Pronger was experiencing more injuries and that physically he was beginning to break down little by little. Very common among aging physical defensemen.

I still think the Metro (and the East, for all intents and purposes) is wide open. A worse than expected start doesn't change that. I still didn't think they were a shoo in playoff team and I still don't. But I'm not sold they'll be in the race for the right to draft McDavid or Eichel.
- Jsaquella

For the most point I agree, however, without Coburn, their D just isn't good enough to compete for a playoff spot. They would need a ton of lottery luck to land McDavid. If they do miss the playoffs, they are more likely looking at picking somewhere between 8-12

And he doesn't take advantage positionally when he has the chance (taking Jagr into the boards, instead of letting him speed by for a goal, for example).
- tangent_man

Yes that particular play infuriated me

That is what I am talking about it, he is not more than a 6 Dman

They are. Paul Holmgren was an overall good GM. He made mistakes, sure and some were really dumb mistakes. But he also made some really good moves and turned the worst team in the NHL into a legitimate Cup contender in the space of 4 years. That's pretty good.

The biggest issue with Holmgren was, or at least my biggest issue was, that he seemed to be reactive and lacked a long term plan. Too often he seemed to be dealing with an eye on the immediate future and not two years down the road
- Jsaquella

It's tough to buy your way out of mistakes in the cap era.....Holmgrens mistakes were compounded....he for the most part did a good job, but I agree he never seemed to stick to one plan.

i don't think any of these guys care what the fans think, i just meant i hope the fans stay more positive and have the big picture in mind
- hogweed

That's a bunch of hog-wash, hogweed!

We will continue to be Nega-delphia and the bridge jumping will continue until further notice! The good news is that it is incredible difficult to post here while falling from a bridge into water.

I still think the Metro (and the East, for all intents and purposes) is wide open. A worse than expected start doesn't change that. I still didn't think they were a shoo in playoff team and I still don't. But I'm not sold they'll be in the race for the right to draft McDavid or Eichel.
- Jsaquella

The worst thing they could do would be to be the Toronto Maple Leafs. Always on the cusp of the playoffs but not making it in and never being in position to draft Patrick Kane, Jonathon Toews, Sidney Crosby, Malkin, etc.

i don't think any of these guys care what the fans think, i just meant i hope the fans stay more positive and have the big picture in mind
- hogweed

lol flyers fans are some of the most pessimistic in the league...but theyll keep going to the games lol

Have the Flyers fired Berube and replaced him with Cote yet?
- Dkos

Yes, Shelley is the new assistant and Rosehill is being groomed for the future as we speak.

Schenn just doesn't seem to be able to take that next step.....to me him and Couturier carry a lot of potential and the Flyers have hitched their wagon too. If they don't develop further the organization faces a huge setback.
Frankly, I'm not shocked at the start....disappointed, but not shocked.
- landros 2

I wouldn't say huge set back. I think Couturier's developed well. He needs to bring more offense, but at worst he's going to be a fantasic third line shut down center.

Schenn, there's times he just looks lost out there. Maybe it's the position juggling. Maybe its the line juggling. Maybe he's just not that good. I worry about the level of hockey sense. Or maybe it's just confidence. He doesn't good unless he's being active and skating hard, and he's not doing that right now.

Who was talking post game smack?
Was it the coach?
Missed this.
- Marc D

Berube, yes. I don't have the quote, but I think he was trying to 'inspire' him.

That's a bunch of hog-wash, hogweed!

We will continue to be Nega-delphia and the bridge jumping will continue until further notice! The good news is that it is incredible difficult to post here while falling from a bridge into water.
- coffee junkie

maybe hose tpeople can write it in their will and have a surrogate post for them posthumously

LACK FOR JACK

For the most point I agree, however, without Coburn, their D just isn't good enough to compete for a playoff spot. They would need a ton of lottery luck to land McDavid. If they do miss the playoffs, they are more likely looking at picking somewhere between 8-12
- BiggE

Even with Coburn, I don't think they're that great. He's a Robin, not a Batman