how big is this sample with streit?
that with schenn is better than i anticipated...

still not top 4 with schenn on a cup contender.

get back to me on the streit # of minutes, or games, and i may chance my opinion.
- tweaver3312

The problem is they won't play him with Streit, they keep playing him with Coburn and now Schultz. Against the other team's top lines.

I'd probably go Streit/Coburn followed by Myers/Coburn or AMac/Coburn. But I still wouldn't trade for Myers. Just my opinion. No matter how you slice it though, the Flyers blueline will probably be less than a ideal for at least another year or too.
- NickTheKid87

Streit with coburn?

How amazing is it that the player the Flyers traded JVR for, can't crack the third pairing on the worst defense core in the League?

Stupefying.
- PLindbergh31

Luke Schenn looks great next to Timonen or MacDonald but not so good next to Meszaros, Gustafsson or Del Zotto. I don't see what's weird or not obvious about this. If we want him to be more then what he is, get him a decent D partner.

Gus and LSchenn were actually quite good together. CF of 48.1%, GF% of 58.6 in 305 minutes.

40.4CF%, -2.98% rel... 5th-ranked on the blueline in both. Granted a lot of the CA was accrued in the last game. Were you talking about other numbers?
- Tomahawk

I was talking about his Flyers stats from last year.

I assume you aren't going to argue that MacDonald is not a second pairing defenseman based on his performance in three games this year on the first pairing, one with Coburn, and two with Schultz.

Luke Schenn looks great next to Timonen or MacDonald but not so good next to Meszaros, Gustafsson or Del Zotto. I don't see what's weird or not obvious about this. If we want him to be more then what he is, get him a decent D partner.
- SuperSchennBros

Yup, decent as in steady, & reliable.

i dont want malkin. seriously. take richards, keep malkin and give me ehroff. then we got a deal.
- tweaver3312

Okay. Crosby, Ehrhoff, Maata, (50% salary retained) and 7 1st round picks for Doughty. Is he tradeable now?

A mobile Grossmann?
- puckhead17

There is a lot of Grossmann tunnel vision here. I don't think Grossmann is nearly as bad as some suggestion. He's just slow. Outside of that, he's good at what he does. He's strong, blocks shots, hits, can clear the crease. He just needs the right partner as well.

Gus and LSchenn were actually quite good together. CF of 48.1%, GF% of 58.6 in 305 minutes.



I was talking about his Flyers stats from last year.

I assume you aren't going to argue that MacDonald is not a second pairing defenseman based on his performance in three games this year on the first pairing, one with Coburn, and two with Schultz.
- Feanor

This doesn't seem right...in any kind of weird universe.

The problem is they won't play him with Streit, they keep playing him with Coburn and now Schultz. Against the other team's top lines.
- Feanor

I don't understand this either. It's one of my problems with Berube. Two defenseman develop chemistry together then he breaks them up.

Two years ago Timonen-Schenn finished as the top pairing and worked well together. He never tried that combo in his tenure.

Grossmann-Coburn was a solid pairing when they beat the Pens in the playoffs. That pairing has never been tried since they lost to the Devils in the playoffs.

Amac-Streit combo has played well together and their strong Corsi numbers have shown this since their time together in NY.

I just don't understand why Berube feels the need to force pairings in the old school, general way when chemistry has been obvious to me. Always just puts one puck mover and one big guy.

Luke Schenn looks great next to Timonen or MacDonald but not so good next to Meszaros, Gustafsson or Del Zotto. I don't see what's weird or not obvious about this. If we want him to be more then what he is, get him a decent D partner.
- SuperSchennBros

He's looked solid next to Timonen, not great. The trouble is, if you're paying a guy $3.6mm and he needs a $5mm partner to look good, why not get rid of him and get a $1mm guy who would also look good next to the $5mm guy?

The problem is they won't play him with Streit, they keep playing him with Coburn and now Schultz. Against the other team's top lines.
- Feanor

i'm not saying amac cant improve, but from what i see right now, he better not be in your top 4 if you wanna win a cup. if you wanna be a bubble team, perfect, he's fine as a 2nd pair guy then.

i will say, i believe he's only played 200 or so nhl games so improvement is NOT out of the question, however i'm not holding my breath.

There is a lot of Grossmann tunnel vision here. I don't think Grossmann is nearly as bad as some suggestion. He's just slow. Outside of that, he's good at what he does. He's strong, blocks shots, hits, can clear the crease. He just needs the right partner as well.
- SuperSchennBros

All Hextall has to do is get the right partner for L. Schenn and Grossmann?

How bout Doughty for Schenn, and Keith for Grossmann. That would do quite nicely.

He's looked solid next to Timonen, not great. The trouble is, if you're paying a guy $3.6mm and he needs a $5mm partner to look good, why not get rid of him and get a $1mm guy who would also look good next to the $5mm guy?
- Jsaquella

^^This

One thing I noticed was Chief rolled out the 4th line in the 3rd period more then the Giroux line, maybe more overall , after 2 periods Giroux has 11:00 of ice time, doesn't sound like your trying to keep the foot on the gas pedal to me if your going to sit back and try to keep your 4th line out more to protect a lead. IMHO that's on the coaching there. Giroux didn't start playing more until we started losing our lead.

There is a lot of Grossmann tunnel vision here. I don't think Grossmann is nearly as bad as some suggestion. He's just slow. Outside of that, he's good at what he does. He's strong, blocks shots, hits, can clear the crease. He just needs the right partner as well.
- SuperSchennBros

i like grossman.. lol. more than amac. lol. (cost reasons) but again, he's a 3rd pair guy. or a guy who needs a top pairing guy, who's a great passer and skater to make a 2nd pairing guy.

i wouldn't complain about these guys if they had the players to pair with them. THEY DONT

I was talking about his Flyers stats from last year.

I assume you aren't going to argue that MacDonald is not a second pairing defenseman based on his performance in three games this year on the first pairing, one with Coburn, and two with Schultz.
- Feanor

His stats from last year aren't anything to laud... even that brief period of time where Streit's strong play carried him for a bit. I'd be hard pressed to find any stats, trad or adv, that could make a definitive case that AMac's a indisputable top-4 guy. Except for icetime... which only tells us what Capuano/Berube think of him.

He may or may not be... jury's still out as far as I'm concerned.

Grossmann is currently a top 4 guy for us. Do you think MacDonald would do better or worse given the exact same shifts and teammates as Grossmann? Streit is supposed to be the main defenseman generating offense at ES and he's partnered with a guy who struggles to hold the puck in in the offensive zone, and randomly fires the puck down the ice for icing in the defensive zone

i'm not saying amac cant improve, but from what i see right now, he better not be in your top 4 if you wanna win a cup. if you wanna be a bubble team, perfect, he's fine as a 2nd pair guy then.
- tweaver3312

I agree.

The trouble is, if you're paying a guy $3.6mm and he needs a $5mm partner to look good, why not get rid of him and get a $1mm guy who would also look good next to the $5mm guy?
- Jsaquella

Ouch... incisive and so true.

He's looked solid next to Timonen, not great. The trouble is, if you're paying a guy $3.6mm and he needs a $5mm partner to look good, why not get rid of him and get a $1mm guy who would also look good next to the $5mm guy?
- Jsaquella

What do you mean? We traded for Schenn's deal. We picked up Del Zotto for cheap. We picked up MacDonald at a decent price and then overpaid him. Meszaros was a 4 million dollar player. For me, it's simple. Timonen and MacDonald have a balanced two way game and this is what Schenn needs to work with.

Quick Question:

Bogosian/Myers

Both teams want a package of Schenn and Schenn

Who would you take?

i like grossman.. lol. more than amac. lol. (cost reasons) but again, he's a 3rd pair guy. or a guy who needs a top pairing guy, who's a great passer and skater to make a 2nd pairing guy.

i wouldn't complain about these guys if they had the players to pair with them. THEY DONT
- tweaver3312

The entire defense is made up of guys who aren't the lead in any pairing. They all need the proper partner to be effective. Even Coburn. That's why the loss of Timonen is so huge. He elevates the game of his partner and will be solid no matter who he's paired with. He's capable of being the lead on a pair. Losing Timonen was like losing 2 defenseman; him and his partner.

His stats from last year aren't anything to laud... even that brief period of time where Streit's strong play carried him for a bit. I'd be hard pressed to find any stats, trad or adv, that could make a definitive case that AMac's a indisputable top-4 guy. Except for icetime... which only tells us what Capuano/Berube think of him.

He may or may not be... jury's still out as far as I'm concerned.
- Tomahawk

Mind boggling.

Look at the ES ice times more than the order the lines are written down.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/pl...erGame&viewName=timeOnIce

Coots and Read are 1st and 3rd in ES ice time per game.
- Feanor

Noted. I just don't think Read gets enough praise for this work ethic and skill. I always liked him and if you're reading this Matt, I NOTICE!

I know Schenn is this weeks whipping boy, but ever see someone's face and automatically dislike them without knowing what kind of person they are? That's how I feel about B schenn.

Quick Question:

Bogosian/Myers

Both teams want a package of Schenn and Schenn

Who would you take?
- J35Bacher

No. I still believe in baby schenn. Berube has coached him to the point of no confidence.

Mind boggling.




- Jsaquella