Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: A Dose of Perspective, Practice Day and Injury Updates
- bmeltzer

They flat out quit playing in the 3rd against Montreal and thats just unacceptable.

What's concerning to me, is that under both Lavy and now Berube, this team seems to very rarely put in a 6o minute effort. That tells me it's not the coach, it's the players.

It may be time to seriously question the leadership group of this team. I need to ask the following questions:

1. Is Claude Giroux a real leader?

2. If the answer to the above is no, is it time to seriously think about trading the captain?

3. Did moving Scott Hartnell hurt the chemistry of this team?

4. Is it time for the coach to take a more radical stand against the players who are playing poorly?

IMO, the answers are as follows:

1. Apparently not. This team has not played well on a consistent basis and has rarely given a 60 minute effort under his captaincy. That is very worrisome. While there is no doubt that he is a fantastic player, maybe he is just not cut out for a leadership role. Yes, his opening shift against the Pens in 2012 was amazing, but that was a long time ago. Since then there have been 2 questionable off ice incidents and he certainly has not done anything special 3 games into this season.

2. Maybe. We all know Lavy loves Giroux. Would they move Weber for him? I don't know, but I would really consider it. Weber is a proven leader and a Norris level dman who is only a couple of years older than Giroux. Plus the Flyers track record at the draft table tells me they have a much better chance at drafting an impact center than they do a Norris trophy caliber defenseman.

3. Again maybe. He was a popular player in the locker room. Without being "in the room" on a regular basis, it's an impossible question to answer.

4. Yes. A little Mike Keenan wouldn't be a bad thing right now. Someone has a crappy/lazy shift, glue his ass to the bench for the rest of the period. Someone has back to back crappy games, sit him. It's time to start demanding more of the players.

Rant over.

That's valid on some levels, and I agree with the shoot out choices being less than stellar and not using Voracek on the 4 on 3 situation.

That said, I worry about the compete level and the intelligence level. They'd make a dumb play, and then double down by not aggressively working to correct the mistake. Then they'd repeat the mistake.

Part of it is that I doubt changing coaches would have any kind of impact.
- Jsaquella

yeah i don't know if changing coaches would do anything but i wonder if hextall would rather put his own guy in... he made it clear he didn't think the team needs an enforcer so i have to wonder if he wants one coaching the team






also, hi skip!

That's valid on some levels, and I agree with the shoot out choices being less than stellar and not using Voracek on the 4 on 3 situation.

That said, I worry about the compete level and the intelligence level. They'd make a dumb play, and then double down by not aggressively working to correct the mistake. Then they'd repeat the mistake.

Part of it is that I doubt changing coaches would have any kind of impact.
- Jsaquella

They bulk of the roster was here after the summer of 2011 and it seems they are making the same mistakes. Maybe Lavy and Berube need them doing puzzles instead of skating drills. It seems like the IQ of this team is too low with all the mistakes they keep on making over and over.

That's valid on some levels, and I agree with the shoot out choices being less than stellar and not using Voracek on the 4 on 3 situation.

That said, I worry about the compete level and the intelligence level. They'd make a dumb play, and then double down by not aggressively working to correct the mistake. Then they'd repeat the mistake.

Part of it is that I doubt changing coaches would have any kind of impact.
- Jsaquella[/quote]

They've shown an inability to play for 60 minutes under Lavy and Berube. It's time to hold the players accountable.

Myers has a $5.5 million cap hit through 2018-19. I'd stay far away from that. The Flyers would have to give up a roster player or two to make room for Myers' contract plus Buffalo would probably want a pick or a prospect. If so, that would be too much to give up for such an inconsistent player.
- NickTheKid87

If Hextall is ready to give up the Schenns and Buffalo agrees, it works roster and cap wise.

FORWARDS
Michael Raffl ($1.100m) / Claude Giroux ($8.275m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Matt Read ($3.625m) / Sean Couturier ($1.750m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Pierre-Edouard Bellemare ($0.600m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / R.J. Umberger ($4.600m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m) / Scott Laughton ($0.863m) / Jason Akeson ($0.575m)
Blair Jones ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Tyler Myers ($5.500m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Mark Streit ($5.250m)
Andrew MacDonald ($5.000m) / Nick Schultz ($1.250m)
Michael Del Zotto ($1.300m) /
GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($4.100m)
Ray Emery ($1.000m)
LTIR
Chris Pronger ($4.941m)
Kimmo Timonen ($2.000m)
Ryan White ($0.575m)
BONUS OVERAGE
NaN
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15 crunched using simulation date of 2014-10-13)
SALARY CAP: $68,655,000; BONUSES: $1,712,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,791,667

I am starting to come around to moving B.Schenn. I will still give him time to turn it around but he was given a chance with Giroux and I thought i would see more out of him. I just thought i would see more hunger. When I watch Couturier he seems more accertive and even faster and physicall this year. I was hoping Schenn would take that step. Maybe we move Schenn and Schenn to WPG and see if we can get Bogossian or Kane. Just thinking out loud. I know the season is still early.

I agree. But he is young enough to still turn it around and also that deal doesn't look bad when the cap goes up. I prefer a trade for someone like that over a vet if we are giving up assets.
- J35Bacher

We have a couple of reclamation projects on D already- Luke and MDZ. How many more this already disfunctional defense can handle?

Oddly, I think this is where a listless team needs a Laviolette or Hitchcock to come in and squeeze the best results out of what the roster has to offer. That said, replacing Berube now only helps this team down the road when they will have a better D corps and are ready to contend for a playoff spot. It doesn't really do anything for a team that just has to take its lumps this season & wait for bad contracts to expire.
- Flyskippy

It's possible, but if they're that bad, let's just see what Berube can do and use the year as a learning example. Maybe he can rally the team an turn things around. Maybe he can benefit from the experience and become a better coach.

Unless they go winless in October, or something like that, I'm in no hurry to juggle coaches

They flat out quit playing in the 3rd against Montreal and thats just unacceptable.

What's concerning to me, is that under both Lavy and now Berube, this team seems to very rarely put in a 6o minute effort. That tells me it's not the coach, it's the players.

It may be time to seriously question the leadership group of this team. I need to ask the following questions:

1. Is Claude Giroux a real leader?

2. If the answer to the above is no, is it time to seriously think about trading the captain?

3. Did moving Scott Hartnell hurt the chemistry of this team?

4. Is it time for the coach to take a more radical stand against the players who are playing poorly?

IMO, the answers are as follows:

1. Apparently not. This team has not played well on a consistent basis and has rarely given a 60 minute effort under his captaincy. That is very worrisome. While there is no doubt that he is a fantastic player, maybe he is just not cut out for a leadership role. Yes, his opening shift against the Pens in 2012 was amazing, but that was a long time ago. Since then there have been 2 questionable off ice incidents and he certainly has not done anything special 3 games into this season.

2. Maybe. We all know Lavy loves Giroux. Would they move Weber for him? I don't know, but I would really consider it. Weber is a proven leader and a Norris level dman who is only a couple of years older than Giroux. Plus the Flyers track record at the draft table tells me they have a much better chance at drafting an impact center than they do a Norris trophy caliber defenseman.

3. Again maybe. He was a popular player in the locker room. Without being "in the room" on a regular basis, it's an impossible question to answer.

4. Yes. A little Mike Keenan wouldn't be a bad thing right now. Someone has a crappy/lazy shift, glue his ass to the bench for the rest of the period. Someone has back to back crappy games, sit him. It's time to start demanding more of the players.

Rant over.
- BiggE

I didn't think you were one of those irrational, trade Giroux people. After what he did last season despite being hurt for the first month it's an indefensible position. He guaranteed a playoff spot and then scored 79 points in 68 games to make it happen. That's real leadership.

The Flyers were even worse last October with an out of shape Hartnell on the team so the idea that trading them hurt the team is also ludicrous.

It may be time to seriously question the leadership group of this team. I need to ask the following questions:

1. Is Claude Giroux a real leader?

2. If the answer to the above is no, is it time to seriously think about trading the captain?

3. Did moving Scott Hartnell hurt the chemistry of this team?

4. Is it time for the coach to take a more radical stand against the players who are playing poorly?


- BiggE

1. Yes. The problems seem more to do with personnel in regards to defense an hockey IQ. I'm not sure leadership is really an issue. Before this season, the Flyers had Giroux, Lecavalier, Timonen and Streit on the team. All have been captains.

2. Don't trade Giroux.

3. It's too early to tell, IMO. It's only been 3 games.

4. Maybe. I've never been a fan of the "yell at them" style used by Torts and such since I feel that the team eventually tunes it out. Somethings gotta give though. They're making some of the same mistakes they made under Lavy. I would have preferred a whole new regime instead of promoting Berube from assistant coach. That way, it would be a completely fresh start.

They bulk of the roster was here after the summer of 2011 and it seems they are making the same mistakes. Maybe Lavy and Berube need them doing puzzles instead of skating drills. It seems like the IQ of this team is too low with all the mistakes they keep on making over and over.
- NickTheKid87

There's times when this team has all the hockey sense of Patrick Kaleta after 12 Red Bulls and an 8 ball of coke.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: A Dose of Perspective, Practice Day and Injury Updates
- bmeltzer

Apathy setting in after 3 games you think? It's so disappointing to count the days until the season starts (even though expectations of this team wasn't as high as usual) and for the Flyers to fall short for the first 3 games especially when each game was within reach of a "W".

The worst thing for an organization is for its fanbase to become numb to losing (i'm not at that point yet). I am, however, at the point for a trade to happen just to shake things up and I am looking at Baby Schenn here (he is the flavor of the month). He plays as if these games are a hobby and not a career. Wake up man!

Certainly. But considering all factors, I'm not sure I'd be happy with it. He'd come in under a ton of pressure and have to assume a top pair role. With what they'd have to give up to get him, the team and fans would be expecting the moon and stars, and I'm not sure he can deliver.
- Jsaquella

He played with Coburn at worlds and they looked good together. Also depending on who moved out he could slide lower. For arguments sake say it was Luke. Could put him on the second or thrid pair. I don't know. I just prefer a trade for this type of player over a vet that isn't in the future plans. Myers and even a guy like Bogossian are young enought to move with the rebuilding of the defense

If Hextall is ready to give up the Schenns and Buffalo agrees, it works roster and cap wise.

FORWARDS
Michael Raffl ($1.100m) / Claude Giroux ($8.275m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Matt Read ($3.625m) / Sean Couturier ($1.750m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Pierre-Edouard Bellemare ($0.600m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / R.J. Umberger ($4.600m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m) / Scott Laughton ($0.863m) / Jason Akeson ($0.575m)
Blair Jones ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Tyler Myers ($5.500m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Mark Streit ($5.250m)
Andrew MacDonald ($5.000m) / Nick Schultz ($1.250m)
Michael Del Zotto ($1.300m) /
GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($4.100m)
Ray Emery ($1.000m)
LTIR
Chris Pronger ($4.941m)
Kimmo Timonen ($2.000m)
Ryan White ($0.575m)
BONUS OVERAGE
NaN
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15 crunched using simulation date of 2014-10-13)
SALARY CAP: $68,655,000; BONUSES: $1,712,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,791,667
- Feanor

I'd rather keep the Schenns. Myers contract is too big and his play to inconsistent. I'd be more willing to consider if Myers wasn't paid so much for so long.

Final Destination 8: Flyers Defenseman

Myers has been very up and down over the last few years.
- Jsaquella

An up and down guy to an up and down team... he'll fit right in.

There's times when this team has all the hockey sense of Patrick Kaleta after 12 Red Bulls and an 8 ball of coke.
- Jsaquella

Is the staff missing that? Or are their solutions for it ineffective? Maybe it's just a bad mix of players. It seems like all the same problems since 2011-12 with only marginal improvement. Berube was on the staff the whole time FWIW

id love to have myers @ 5.5....Seriously that could be a steal and give the flyers some breathing room. They need to get someone to fill that hole till the kids come up...Getting myers buys them a lot of time...personally both Schenns are expendible at this point...they have talent, but no hockey smarts..cant be a dumb player in today's league...

5.5 isnt poop in today's nhl

how nice it would be if our top line was jvr-g-jake
- mydoglicks

I was just thinking about this! I was remembering the first game of the season a few years ago when Chara hit G into the wall and JVR fought him.

If Hextall is ready to give up the Schenns and Buffalo agrees, it works roster and cap wise.

FORWARDS
Michael Raffl ($1.100m) / Claude Giroux ($8.275m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Matt Read ($3.625m) / Sean Couturier ($1.750m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Pierre-Edouard Bellemare ($0.600m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / R.J. Umberger ($4.600m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m) / Scott Laughton ($0.863m) / Jason Akeson ($0.575m)
Blair Jones ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Tyler Myers ($5.500m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Mark Streit ($5.250m)
Andrew MacDonald ($5.000m) / Nick Schultz ($1.250m)
Michael Del Zotto ($1.300m) /
GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($4.100m)
Ray Emery ($1.000m)
LTIR
Chris Pronger ($4.941m)
Kimmo Timonen ($2.000m)
Ryan White ($0.575m)
BONUS OVERAGE
NaN
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15 crunched using simulation date of 2014-10-13)
SALARY CAP: $68,655,000; BONUSES: $1,712,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,791,667
- Feanor

Would you trade those two for Myers straight up (no picks/prospects included)?

They flat out quit playing in the 3rd against Montreal and thats just unacceptable.
- BiggE

See, I'm not sure that's how I'd interpret it.

I thought MTL play relatively poopty for 2-periods, just like they did in their previous game against the Caps, but after they hit the switch, they just steamrolled a weaker opponent.

I think most of us had doubts about the viability of this team, considering the most optimistic anybody here dared to be was "playoff bubble team, 1st-round fodder".

It's year 2 of the 5-year plan, though. If they're still like this in a season or two, then start worrying.

id love to have myers @ 5.5....Seriously that could be a steal and give the flyers some breathing room. They need to get someone to fill that hole till the kids come up...Getting myers buys them a lot of time...personally both Schenns are expendible at this point...they have talent, but no hockey smarts..cant be a dumb player in today's league...

5.5 isnt poop in today's nhl
- PhillaBully

Said AMAC's agent

id love to have myers @ 5.5....Seriously that could be a steal and give the flyers some breathing room. They need to get someone to fill that hole till the kids come up...Getting myers buys them a lot of time...personally both Schenns are expendible at this point...they have talent, but no hockey smarts..cant be a dumb player in today's league...

5.5 isnt poop in today's nhl
- PhillaBully

I don't have a particular problem with the 5.5mil. It's the length of the contract that gives me pause.

The Flyers could stand pat and be Schenn-free after the '15-'16 season.

And while I'm not ready to dump Brayden Schenn just yet, I don't think you could take on Myers if you don't send Luke Schenn or Nick Grossmann back the other way.

Philadelphia Flyers @NHLFlyers · 2m 2 minutes ago
Injury Updates: Lecavalier - out 2 weeks (lower-body) | Grossmann - stomach virus | Morin - out 4-5 weeks

also, hi skip!
- -davies-

Hey, davies! Good to "see" you.

I agree Hexy probably wants his own guy in as coach but the offseason before management feels the team will contend again is when he'll make the move.