Gardiner is MDZ, in many ways
- AllInForFlyers

Gardiner put up 31 points and was a -4 in 80 games last year.
MDZ put up 18 points and was a -9 in 67 games last year.

I'll take the first guy.

Because of how he was as a person, sure

But I'll go to my grave saying that Geoff Sanderson, Mark Cullen and Matt Ellison were the worst Flyers players I've ever seen step on the ice -- no heart, declining ability or straight-up lack of ability

Paycheck collectors at their worst
- AllInForFlyers

Tibbetts couldn't play, either. He was a horrible player. No skill or hockey sense.

Five things I want to see tonight:

1. B. Schenn going all out every second of every shift. Your coach publicly called you out, you gonna wilt or are you gonna man up? Up to you kid.

2. Claude Giroux makes a statement. Your the captain and your team is an early season mess. Time to step up and have one of those playoff type opening shifts to start this game. Flyers cannot and will not beat the Ducks if the captain doesn't have a monster game.

3. 60 minutes of all out effort! Supposedly these guys are in shape, so no excuses boys, get those wheels moving and keep em moving.

4. Something, anything from Michael Del Zotto. Do you want to keep on playing in the NHL, son? Yes? Well then show us why you should!

5. All five men on the ice committing to playing sound positional defense with short gaps and feet moving. Stop standing around and stop running around. There is no excuse for how you played in the 3rd against Montreal. Step it up!

GO FLYERS!!
- BiggE

1. Be patient

2. How dare you

3. Wish in one hand...

4. Stop scapgoating

5. They're trying, so stop being negative.

There I've done my Amen Corner deed for the day. [url]

Gardiner put up 31 points and was a -4 in 80 games last year.
MDZ put up 18 points and was a -9 in 67 games last year.

I'll take the first guy.
- jmatchett383

Gardiner is a damned good player. He's till young and has all the physical tools. I'd take him in a heartbeat.

1. Be patient

2. How dare you

3. Wish in one hand...

4. Stop scapgoating

5. They're trying, so stop being negative.

There I've done my Amen Corner deed for the day.
- JoeRussomanno[url]

Gardiner is a damned good player. He's till young and has all the physical tools. I'd take him in a heartbeat.
- Jsaquella

Especially if we could get him for MDZ!!

Gardiner is a damned good player. He's till young and has all the physical tools. I'd take him in a heartbeat.
- Jsaquella

Besides, Toronto owes the Flyers for taking Luke Schenn off their hands.

Gardiner put up 31 points and was a -4 in 80 games last year.
MDZ put up 18 points and was a -9 in 67 games last year.

I'll take the first guy.
- jmatchett383

A one-to-one comparison like that doesn't work, when you look at how things are shaking out -- Toronto's already benched Gardiner as a healthy scratch, three games after Gardiner was part of possibly the worst defense corps performance in NHL history

The Leafs score more than the Rags and Preds, play a different style of game. It's easy to be a minus on a team that doesn't score a lot at ES

I think Berube prefers the harder-hitting, defensive dmen like Grossmann and Schenn over the faster but softer more offensively-minded dmen like Gus and MDZ. Just like he seemed to favor a player like Rinaldo and Rosehill last season over guys like McGinn and Akeson.
- NickTheKid87

I'm not sure if that's accurate. I think Berube is looking for balance. He has roles in his head, and needs a player to fit each role.

X number of playmakers
X number of power forwards
X number of defense forwards
1 goon - Rosehill
1 agitators - Rinaldo

Y number of defensive defenseman
Y number of offensive defenseman

In the case of McGinn and Akeson, McGinn was going up against Simmonds and Hartell, and Akeson was going up against Giroux, VLC, etc..

In the case of Defensemen / Grossmann and Schenn were the only hard hitters their jobs were secure. We have too many softer more offensively-minded dmen, so guys like Gus and MDZ have a hard time cracking the line up or gain more ice time, versus Streit, Timmonen, etc...

A one-to-one comparison like that doesn't work, when you look at how things are shaking out -- Toronto's already benched Gardiner as a healthy scratch, three games after Gardiner was part of possibly the worst defense corps performance in NHL history

The Leafs score more than the Rags and Preds, play a different style of game. It's easy to be a minus on a team that doesn't score a lot at ES
- AllInForFlyers

So you think MDZ and Gardiner are 100% interchangeable?

I'm not sure if that's accurate. I think Berube is looking for balance. He has roles in his head, and needs a player to fit each role.

X number of playmakers
X number of power forwards
X number of defense forwards
1 goon - Rosehill
1 agitators - Rinaldo

Y number of defensive defenseman
Y number of offensive defenseman

In the case of McGinn and Akeson, McGinn was going up against Simmonds and Hartell, and Akeson was going up against Giroux, VLC, etc..

In the case of Defensemen / Grossmann and Schenn were the only hard hitters their jobs were secure. We have too many softer more offensively-minded dmen, so guys like Gus and MDZ have a hard time cracking the line up or gain more ice time, versus Streit, Timmonen, etc...
- leon neon

That, plus Tye McGinn was not equipped with the skill to play professional ice hockey past the American Hockey League skill level..

So you think MDZ and Gardiner are 100% interchangeable?
- jmatchett383

I think it's close -- Gardiner's pretty weak defensively, pretty soft. Gardiner's a better skater, I'd say

The difference is, really, is Gardiner has a long-term deal that Del Zotto doesn't have. That's what they're debating up on the radio: Do you have to play Gardiner because he has the deal? How much do you have to do to get him going?

I think it's close -- Gardiner's pretty weak defensively, pretty soft. Gardiner's a better skater, I'd say

The difference is, really, is Gardiner has a long-term deal that Del Zotto doesn't have. That's what they're debating up on the radio: Do you have to play Gardiner because he has the deal? How much do you have to do to get him going?
- AllInForFlyers

I'll admit I've never watched Gardiner in depth. But from what I've read about both players prior to MDZ coming to Philly, one was much more coveted than the other. We're not going to agree on this.

I'm not sure if that's accurate. I think Berube is looking for balance. He has roles in his head, and needs a player to fit each role.

X number of playmakers
X number of power forwards
X number of defense forwards
1 goon - Rosehill
1 agitators - Rinaldo

Y number of defensive defenseman
Y number of offensive defenseman

In the case of McGinn and Akeson, McGinn was going up against Simmonds and Hartell, and Akeson was going up against Giroux, VLC, etc..

In the case of Defensemen / Grossmann and Schenn were the only hard hitters their jobs were secure. We have too many softer more offensively-minded dmen, so guys like Gus and MDZ have a hard time cracking the line up or gain more ice time, versus Streit, Timmonen, etc...
- leon neon

You could be right about this. The thing is, I'm not sure Berube is. I got his logic behind playing Gill over Gus in the playoffs, for example, but I'm not sure it was the right idea.

I'll admit I've never watched Gardiner in depth. But from what I've read about both players prior to MDZ coming to Philly, one was much more coveted than the other. We're not going to agree on this.
- jmatchett383

That's fine; we're just talking hockey. I'm not trying to win anything. I'm more saying that Gardiner's an interesting case because they won with him being a healthy scratch, yet still gave up a lot of shots and three goals

I'm curious as to how much value he would have if they decided to move him

Brian Gibbons on waivers, Flyers should claim him instead of recalling VandeVelde
- Jsaquella

I agree. Loved his speed and agressive play. Kind of like him more then Akeson but I think it wouldn't hurt

I'm not sure if that's accurate. I think Berube is looking for balance. He has roles in his head, and needs a player to fit each role.

X number of playmakers
X number of power forwards
X number of defense forwards
1 goon - Rosehill
1 agitators - Rinaldo

Y number of defensive defenseman
Y number of offensive defenseman

In the case of McGinn and Akeson, McGinn was going up against Simmonds and Hartell, and Akeson was going up against Giroux, VLC, etc..

In the case of Defensemen / Grossmann and Schenn were the only hard hitters their jobs were secure. We have too many softer more offensively-minded dmen, so guys like Gus and MDZ have a hard time cracking the line up or gain more ice time, versus Streit, Timmonen, etc...
- leon neon

Duhrube needs to put his nintendo away

- BiggE

#'s 3,2 and 1 need to happen tonight

I saw the pictures of the arena. Unreal. Looked like what most places look like an hour from puck drop. Could have held archery practice in there.

Get the Panthers in Quebec City, and get them there now!
- PLindbergh31

The flight is delayed, sorry

The Flyers need to score more goals than the Ducks tonight. That's the only way they are going to win this one IMO.

It's interesting. Listening to Ray Ferraro on TSN Radio talking about Jake Gardiner (aka the Current Whipping Boy in Toronto Who Isn't Dion Phaneuf), you do have to wonder how long he's for that market
- AllInForFlyers

Doesn't Gardiner have the same types of issues that MDZ ie; he's great offensively but sad in his own end?

Gardiner is a damned good player. He's till young and has all the physical tools. I'd take him in a heartbeat.
- Jsaquella

I normally hear the Leafs fans rip him while others outside the fish bowl say he's not bad. How is he defensively?

The Flyers need to score more goals than the Ducks tonight. That's the only way they are going to win this one IMO.
- Streit2ThePoint

I agree. An interesting analytic I found was that the team that scored the most goals in a game, wins 100% of the time. It's a very strong indicator of who is going to win the game.

Doesn't Gardiner have the same types of issues that MDZ ie; he's great offensively but sad in his own end?
- Hextall271

Pretty much; they were talking about his unwillingness to engage in puck battles and simplify his game

What makes it interesting is that really, they look almost the same whether he's in the lineup or not. But they won Sunday, so they are likely going to keep him a healthy scratch

I normally hear the Leafs fans rip him while others outside the fish bowl say he's not bad. How is he defensively?
- Hextall271

He's not especially good, but he isn't Paul Coffey bad...