Agent Smith's PDO is high
- Jsaquella

Adv Stats Neo: Why do my eyes hurt?
Morpheus: You've never used them before.

ZING!

After all the talk about zone entries and whatnot and the Flyers are still dumping and chasing more often than not.
- Jsaquella

They enter the zone with so much speed though

People may disagree, but I do not feel that you can win that way any longer

Even if you turn the puck over from time to time -- and you will -- you have to try to carry the puck, even against good teams.

Hell, especially against good teams. You give the puck to a team like Tampa, from what I saw last night, and Montreal too, they are just gonna skate the puck back and eventually, you are giving up quality chances and goals

Stamkos pumped TWELVE SHOTS ON GOAL last night. You can't let that happen. Because there's no way he's not gonna score. It's just not going to happen.

You have to try to keep the puck. It's not always going to work. But you have to try
- AllInForFlyers

Yep, exactly. Hold onto the puck. You spend all of the damned shift trying to get the puck, why skate it to the blue line and give it back? Obviously there's times you will have to dump or dump and chase, but you can be much more effective if you enter the zone in control of the puck.

Yep, exactly. Hold onto the puck. You spend all of the damned shift trying to get the puck, why skate it to the blue line and give it back? Obviously there's times you will have to dump or dump and chase, but you can be much more effective if you enter the zone in control of the puck.
- Jsaquella

We are too slow to dump and chase......

People may disagree, but I do not feel that you can win that way any longer

Even if you turn the puck over from time to time -- and you will -- you have to try to carry the puck, even against good teams.

Hell, especially against good teams. You give the puck to a team like Tampa, from what I saw last night, and Montreal too, they are just gonna skate the puck back and eventually, you are giving up quality chances and goals

Stamkos pumped TWELVE SHOTS ON GOAL last night. You can't let that happen. Because there's no way he's not gonna score. It's just not going to happen.

You have to try to keep the puck. It's not always going to work. But you have to try
- AllInForFlyers

Yep, it should always be the goal to retain possession.

There's always a time and a place for dumping the puck, but it shouldn't be a central strategy.

You have to try to keep the puck. It's not always going to work. But you have to try
- AllInForFlyers

You do, but last year I think LA was the best at around 55%. Some teams just a little over, but a lot at 50% or less. Possession is important, and can certainly be a factor. But other factors are far more important.

You do, but last year I think LA was the best at around 55%. Some teams just a little over, but a lot at 50% or less. Possession is important, and can certainly be a factor. But other factors are far more important.
- MJL

Like cup size?

Like cup size?
- PhillySportsGuy

Igetthereference.exe

Igetthereference.exe
- Giroux_Is_God

hmm, this attachment looks fishy

You do, but last year I think LA was the best at around 55%. Some teams just a little over, but a lot at 50% or less. Possession is important, and can certainly be a factor. But other factors are far more important.
- MJL

Yes, there are other factors -- I don't dispute that. But possession is pretty important against good teams, because you can't let them kill you on chances.

That's what I'm seeing around the league now, for the good teams and the weaker teams. The better teams, like an LA or San Jose or Chicago, understand that at times, the puck's going to get turned over. That doesn't mean they like it or that they want reckless play.

But they are playing for more possession than you. They want more chances than you, knowing that at some point, a 10-beller is coming that you won't stop.

The reason I question Anaheim is that trading chances isn't the answer, IMO. You have to try to possess the puck so you get MORE chances.

So what happens in a game like last night, when Tampa and Montreal both tried to play that style?

That's when straight-up talent wins out. Victor Hedman and Steven Stamkos were unreal last night. Montreal didn't play particularly poorly. Tampa was just that damn good last night.

You do, but last year I think LA was the best at around 55%. Some teams just a little over, but a lot at 50% or less. Possession is important, and can certainly be a factor. But other factors are far more important.
- MJL

What factors are far more important?

Oh, and Ben Bishop made two big saves when the game was in reach, one on a PP and one on a Max Pacioretty breakaway.

Pretty much the script you'd expect: Timely saves usually help separate two good teams

Yep, exactly. Hold onto the puck. You spend all of the damned shift trying to get the puck, why skate it to the blue line and give it back? Obviously there's times you will have to dump or dump and chase, but you can be much more effective if you enter the zone in control of the puck.
- Jsaquella

If you're LA and your forecheck, support/gaps and positional discipline are to the point where you're super-confident that recovery and re-establishing possession won't be a problem post-dump, then go ahead and dump the puck all you want.

But yeah... if you don't have all those things going for you... you'd better not piss the puck away if you don't have to.

If you're LA and your forecheck, support/gaps and positional discipline are to the point where you're super-confident that recovery and re-establishing possession won't be a problem post-dump, then go ahead and dump the puck all you want.

But yeah... if you don't have all those things going for you... you'd better not piss the puck away if you don't have to.
- Tomahawk

Even so, they still have Doughty out there for 25-plus a night, and Voynov for 20. They do dump the puck, but their fallback is that at some point, if YOU dump it, Doughty's going to kill you

Like cup size?
- PhillySportsGuy

Winning the fights

Yes, there are other factors -- I don't dispute that. But possession is pretty important against good teams, because you can't let them kill you on chances.

That's what I'm seeing around the league now, for the good teams and the weaker teams. The better teams, like an LA or San Jose or Chicago, understand that at times, the puck's going to get turned over. That doesn't mean they like it or that they want reckless play.

But they are playing for more possession than you. They want more chances than you, knowing that at some point, a 10-beller is coming that you won't stop.

The reason I question Anaheim is that trading chances isn't the answer, IMO. You have to try to possess the puck so you get MORE chances.

So what happens in a game like last night, when Tampa and Montreal both tried to play that style?

That's when straight-up talent wins out. Victor Hedman and Steven Stamkos were unreal last night. Montreal didn't play particularly poorly. Tampa was just that damn good last night.
- AllInForFlyers

Possession and chances are two completely different things. And are not one in the same. The other team can technically dominate in possession in terms of shot metrics, which is the only available measure of possession at this time. And yet be on the losing end of legitimate goal scoring chances. On a shift, if one team takes 4 shots from distance, that are either a routine save or miss the net. But the other team takes one of those shots that missed the net, and transitions that into a 2 on 1. Whether they score on it not. The team with the 4 poor quality chances wins the possession battle for that shift. But who won the chances battle?

And reality is that if you're playing one of the top teams, and you break even in possession at 50-50, you've done pretty good. Possession is important, but really it needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

Even so, they still have Doughty out there for 25-plus a night, and Voynov for 20. They do dump the puck, but their fallback is that at some point, if YOU dump it, Doughty's going to kill you
- AllInForFlyers

Yup, and if you have Luke Schenn and Niklas Grossmann back there... yeah.

What factors are far more important?
- NickTheKid87

Clutch plays such as key goals and key saves. Blocked shots. Quality scoring chances over low quality shots. Momentum swinging plays at the right time.

Oh, and Ben Bishop made two big saves when the game was in reach, one on a PP and one on a Max Pacioretty breakaway.

Pretty much the script you'd expect: Timely saves usually help separate two good teams
- AllInForFlyers

Winning the fights
- jmatchett383

I fail to see the difference

Clutch plays such as key goals and key saves. Blocked shots. Quality scoring chances over low quality shots. Momentum plays at the right time.
- MJL

Oh so you're talking about within individual games vs. the season as a whole?

Should be an interesting game. Both teams are similar in that they don't play for possession, but would rather concede possession and try to take away shooting lanes/block quality shots.
- bradleyc4

you found a way to make it sound extremely uninteresting

Oh so you're talking about within individual games vs. the season as a whole?
- NickTheKid87

He doesn't look at entire seasons. He enjoys finding outliers to discredit statistics.

Yup, and if you have Luke Schenn and Niklas Grossmann back there... yeah.
- Tomahawk

It's tough, man. Only a couple of Doughty-types in the sport, sadly

Oh so you're talking about within individual games vs. the season as a whole?
- NickTheKid87

One and the same.