It's not "puck luck" when a goalie gives up a goal cause one of the defensemen is totally out of position.
- Feanor

There's generally always been a guy back when he pinches... too bad it's been VL on a couple of occasions.

MDZ is #1 in Corsi because he was so terrible against Montreal that Berube nailed his ass to the bench in the 3rd.
- Feanor

Probably a factor, but most of it was how bizarre that -4/-5 game that 15/22 had.

@tomahawk

I'm not an advanced stats person.
I don't discount the stats but just don't follow them like you and others.

From watching MDZ the first 3 games its clear he generated attack time, possession, and shots.

He also can be effective clearing pucks on D when he uses his speed to get there first.

I want him to be a bit less reckless when playing in forward mode, pick his spots better, sometimes a dump the puck play would be better then trying to carry it through three guys, etc.

If he can find that balance a little more he could be exactly what they need.

The pairing with Luke has been scary.
They may need more time. Or MDZ may need a steadier guy like Amac or Coburn.

I heard a rumor that the Flyers got rid of the ice girls because the players were being distracted. They have not won since they were brought back.

#icetheicegirls
- jak521

Maybe G is distracted by the butts of the Ice Dudes. Oh wait, they're not cops

MDZ should play with Coburn. He needs a partner who can skate back quickly to cover for him, and Coburn needs a guy who can handles most of the puck moving.

MDZ should play with Coburn. He needs a partner who can skate back quickly to cover for him, and Coburn needs a guy who can handles most of the puck moving.
- Feanor

If he can find that balance a little more he could be exactly what they need.
- Marc D

He's a tight-rope walker... no doubt.

Take him out of the lineup, though... does anybody here want to find out what a Shultz/Schenn pairing looks like? I don't.

@tomahawk

I'm not an advanced stats person.
I don't discount the stats but just don't follow them like you and others.

From watching MDZ the first 3 games its clear he generated attack time, possession, and shots.

He also can be effective clearing pucks on D when he uses his speed to get there first.

I want him to be a bit less reckless when playing in forward mode, pick his spots better, sometimes a dump the puck play would be better then trying to carry it through three guys, etc.

If he can find that balance a little more he could be exactly what they need.

The pairing with Luke has been scary.
They may need more time. Or MDZ may need a steadier guy like Amac or Coburn.
- Marc D

They both might benefit from a split but I'd also consider giving them a couple more games before doing so. Coburn for example in his career as a Flyer for the most part had been steady with everyone he's been paired with, except even he couldn't carry Bruno Gervais.

MDZ should play with Coburn. He needs a partner who can skate back quickly to cover for him, and Coburn needs a guy who can handles most of the puck moving.
- Feanor

Yup
And also Amac/Luke was very solid last year.

This would make me happy.

My best friend is a Bruins fanatic. I have to hear him constantly rant about how bad Dougie Hamilton is. He hates him. He's very concerned about them not generating enough offense, I think he may have a valid point there. They could struggle to score goals this year.
- PLindbergh31

SHOULD HAVE TAKEN HAMILTON INSTEAD OF COUTURIER!

MDZ should play with Coburn. He needs a partner who can skate back quickly to cover for him, and Coburn needs a guy who can handles most of the puck moving.
- Feanor

Coburn is likely going to take on the tough opponents such as Crosby, Thornton or Getzlaf. It sounds like a good idea in theory but all easier said then done.

MDZ-Coburn
Grossmann-Streit
MacDonald-LSchenn

Being a guy who can easily handle 20+ minutes, MacDonald will also get some shifts with Coburn (for defensive situations) and some with Streit (offensive zone draws with the 1st line).

I think this lineup does the best job of spreading the talent around and not putting pieces that don't fit together.

Coburn is likely going to take on the tough opponents such as Crosby, Thornton or Getzlaf. It sounds like a good idea in theory but all easier said then done.
- SuperSchennBros

It's a fair point, but MacDonald is not really big enough or strong enough defensively to handle those guys, either. Plus him and Coburn seem to bring out the worst in each other for some reason.

Didn't you yourself say that MDZ looked pretty awful in preseason? Maybe not in those words, but you did agree than a 19-year-old rookie looked better than him. Not that either player looked good, although I agree than Schultz looked like Hal Gill's grandfather in preseason.

Also, I think "some" were excited about MDZ, not really "many."
- jmatchett383

No, I don't recall saying that at all. What I recall saying multiple times, is that I don't put a lot of stock in the pre season performances of veteran players. I think the regular season is far more telling.

MDZ ES Stats (team D rank):

P/60 1.32 (1)

CF 48.9% (1)
CF/60 59.4 (1)
CA/60 62.0 (2)

QoT TOI: 27.1% (6)
QoC TOI: 27.4% (7)
OZS% Rel: 9.84 (6)

OnIceSV%: .778 (6)


Translation:
When he's on the ice, the Flyers have the puck more than with any other dman, including Streit. That means more time playing 200-ft away from their own net, and less time hemmed in.

He's playing sheltered minutes, but no less sheltered than Streit. Streit actually gets the easiest minutes of anyone. MDZ also doesn't see the same quality of teammates that Streit enjoys.

But... what about all those goals against!

Look at that OnIceSV%... when your goalies can't stop more than 3/4 of the shots on net when you're on the ice, you're looking at some wicked short-term, unsustainably bad luck. Mark Streit, by comparison, enjoys a 96.2 SV% when he's on the ice.

So yeah, MDZ has been better than Streit, but has been a victim of poor short-term puck luck. He's not the most hearty guy down low, nor the most risk-averse... but as far as doing his darned job (pushing play forward), he's faring as well as can be expected.

They could bench him when Coburn gets back, but right now he's the only thing that's holding the anchor that is Luke Schenn afloat.
- Tomahawk

Those stats are fine, but the problem remains: MDZ cannot effectively defend down low in his own zone. Nor can Streit. Now add to that the mobility issues of Grossmann and Schenn and the overall mediocrity of Schultz and you have problems.

When Andy MacDonald is your best all around defenseman, you are in trouble.

Coburn is likely going to take on the tough opponents such as Crosby, Thornton or Getzlaf. It sounds like a good idea in theory but all easier said then done.
- SuperSchennBros

Grossmann or AMac out against those kinds of guys isn't exactly a soothing thought, either. IMO, they're probably going to lose those matchups more often than not anyway... might as well make sure the second and third lines of defense have a better chance of holding.

MDZ ES Stats (team D rank):

P/60 1.32 (1)

CF 48.9% (1)
CF/60 59.4 (1)
CA/60 62.0 (2)

QoT TOI: 27.1% (6)
QoC TOI: 27.4% (7)
OZS% Rel: 9.84 (6)

OnIceSV%: .778 (6)


Translation:
When he's on the ice, the Flyers have the puck more than with any other dman, including Streit. That means more time playing 200-ft away from their own net, and less time hemmed in.

He's playing sheltered minutes, but no less sheltered than Streit. Streit actually gets the easiest minutes of anyone. MDZ also doesn't see the same quality of teammates that Streit enjoys.

But... what about all those goals against!

Look at that OnIceSV%... when your goalies can't stop more than 3/4 of the shots on net when you're on the ice, you're looking at some wicked short-term, unsustainably bad luck. Mark Streit, by comparison, enjoys a 96.2 SV% when he's on the ice.

So yeah, MDZ has been better than Streit, but has been a victim of poor short-term puck luck. He's not the most hearty guy down low, nor the most risk-averse... but as far as doing his darned job (pushing play forward), he's faring as well as can be expected.

They could bench him when Coburn gets back, but right now he's the only thing that's holding the anchor that is Luke Schenn afloat.
- Tomahawk

They should try him with Coburn

The coach had so little confidence in the Schenn MDZ pair that he played Amac 28 minutes the last game. Schultz was 23+ min I think.

This is fckin crazy.

Those two have been fine, I'm not criticizing them.
But those ice times are not good. I'm not an Amac hater, I think he is a solid bonified NHL defenseman. But those are Ryan Suter minutes which won't work.

its not their play that concerns me...its the quality of opponents they face in the first 20 games...if they dont get it together soon they could be facing a insurmountable hole...
- PhillaBully

Kind of a contradiction here. Their play doesn't concern you, then you state if they don't get it together soon they could be facing an insurmountable hole.

MDZ should play with Coburn. He needs a partner who can skate back quickly to cover for him, and Coburn needs a guy who can handles most of the puck moving.
- Feanor

I'm fine with trying that. My only concern is that they normally use Coburn's pairing against the other teams top lines. Do you really want to see MDZ on the ice against Crosby, Tavares, Stamkos etc...

I'm fine with trying that. My only concern is that they normally use Coburn's pairing against the other teams top lines. Do you really want to see MDZ on the ice against Crosby, Tavares, Stamkos etc...
- BiggE

Like Feanor touched on, if it's a clear defensive/critical situation, put Amac in there.

It's not "puck luck" when a goalie gives up a goal cause one of the defensemen is totally out of position.

MDZ is #1 in Corsi because he was so terrible against Montreal that Berube nailed his ass to the bench in the 3rd.

LSchenn was +10 last year when not playing with another MDZ type in Meszaros. Gus and MacDonald formed solid pairings with him.
- Feanor

And look! It worked!

He's a tight-rope walker... no doubt.

Take him out of the lineup, though... does anybody here want to find out what a Shultz/Schenn pairing looks like? I don't.


- Tomahawk

Only if you enjoy nightmares!

I agree. BSchenn is either going to be a successful LW here, or he's going to go somewhere else. Even without Vinny, the long term future at center is Giroux, Couturier, Laughton.
- Feanor

I would agree. And if you look at Schenn's skill set, it points to playing the Wing. Not a guy who carries or distributes the puck to a high level. Not great defensively. he's a north/south player who likes to get in on the forecheck and go to the net, when he's on his game. And even more so in the Flyers center lock forecheck, where the wingers are going to be in deep on the forecheck most of the time, it even further points to Schenn playing the Wing, in my opinion.

I'm fine with trying that. My only concern is that they normally use Coburn's pairing against the other teams top lines. Do you really want to see MDZ on the ice against Crosby, Tavares, Stamkos etc...
- BiggE

I think it's interesting when one person comes up with an idea or turns against a player, the entire board does so as well...then you and I are placed in front of a firing squad for having concerns of these ideas.

Edit

Oops, I thought I was responding to MJL

And look! It worked!
- PhillySportsGuy

I'm fine with trying that. My only concern is that they normally use Coburn's pairing against the other teams top lines. Do you really want to see MDZ on the ice against Crosby, Tavares, Stamkos etc...
- BiggE

It's not ideal
But it's better then Amac playing 28 min a game and Schenn/MDZ getting benched for half a period.

If they are leading you could shift to Coburn/Grossmann for more minutes.

When behind play MDZ more.