Improving a weakness is fine, but you have to weigh the cost vs the degree of improvement.

Luke Schenn improved the defense. Was it worth the cost of JvR? MacDonald improved the defense. Was it worth the cost of a second rounder in a very deep draft? I'm going to say no in the first case, and that the jury is very much out in the second. Both were modest upgrades at high cost.

Let's not forget, that JvR was seen in a similar way to Schenn when he was traded. Inconsistent, only showing flashes...soft. They can not afford to repeat the JvR-Luke schenn deal, from strictly a value standpoint.
- Jsaquella

I disagree that adding MacDonald was a modest upgrade. It was a solid move and well worth the cost in my opinion. MacDonald is a quality #3 NHL puck moving defenseman. And a valuable player to add.

Yeah, 2nd and a 3rd when he was 27 making $1.6M... age 30 w/ ~$7M left on his deal and a poor bill of health probably means a late-round draft pick at best.
- Tomahawk

I'd guess 3rd rounder at absolute best, and that's probably only if a team has a run of bad injury luck and needs verteran replacements desperately.

Of course, Douglas Murray got two 2nd rounders for San Jose, so it's possible that there's a guy so eager to make a move they can do some fleecing. I'd be surprised if it happened, though

I think at the trade deadline he gets you some picks..he is a great guy to have in a playoff run and teams will overpay at that time...He didn't really cost us much a few years ago and has anchored the D very well...his shot blocking is critical for a team making a run as well...I think they should be able to get a 2nd and a 5th for him from the right team...and while I would like to see him still play here, that would be a good trade for the flyers.
- JW98FlyerFan

I'd be pleasantly surprised and ridiculously happy if Grossmann got the Flyers a 2nd rounder. Especially if it's a 2015 second rounder.

I'd guess 3rd rounder at absolute best, and that's probably only if a team has a run of bad injury luck and needs verteran replacements desperately.

Of course, Douglas Murray got two 2nd rounders for San Jose, so it's possible that there's a guy so eager to make a move they can do some fleecing. I'd be surprised if it happened, though
- Jsaquella

That's why I think he could get us a 2nd at the deadline. GMs start thinking, you know if I just had one more physical dman, we could be a real contender etc... Next thing you know the 2nd rounders are flying off the shelves!

Didn't Douglass Murray land the Sharks 2 2nds?
- BiggE

He did. I just can't realistically expect that scenario to repeat itself.

I'd guess 3rd rounder at absolute best, and that's probably only if a team has a run of bad injury luck and needs verteran replacements desperately.

Of course, Douglas Murray got two 2nd rounders for San Jose, so it's possible that there's a guy so eager to make a move they can do some fleecing. I'd be surprised if it happened, though
- Jsaquella

I wouldn't be suprised. Teams get desperat. Buffalo got a 1st rounder from Nashville for Paul Gaudstad. a 4th line center. When teams are trying to make the playoffs or need insurance they will pay. I could see Grossmann and Schenn getting 2nd rounders depending on the team. Coburn I could see possibly getting a 1st rounder. Prices go up at the TDL and especially if you can get Team A and Team B in a bidding war.

Didn't Douglass Murray land the Sharks 2 2nds?
- BiggE

So if Douglas Murray can land 2 2nd's, then what do you we think a 25-27 year old version of Coburn cost?

This is what infuriates me about this fan base. Complain time after time that the team doesn't develop young talent, team finally goes out and gets young talent, and prospects, fans impatient demand a trade for young talent.

Couturier, Schenn, even Luke Schenn--these pieces need to develop. They need to grow into roles that will work out. Because let me tell you, trading Brayden Schenn for Gormley is a terrible idea. Gormley has only played five games, I heard? Why do you think that is?

You could be right about Schenn, but Gormley could be a lot less than advertised. He plummeted on draft day (supposed to go top-5), and his progress has been spotty since.

At least we know Schenn's an NHL player... no idea if Gormley is or not yet. Think Adam Larsson... but handled a bit better.
- Tomahawk

To be fair...

1. Phoenix notoriously allows their prospects to develop in the minor for years
2. Portland Pirates were really bad last year, and not great the two previous seasons
3. He has the tools to be a top-4, two-way defenseman

I'm not saying a Schenn for Gormley trade would be fair or not, but I think Brandon's a perfect target for the Flyers. Good buy-low candidate who could end up being a steal.

He did. I just can't realistically expect that scenario to repeat itself.
- Jsaquella

I said it before but if the Flyers sell at the TDL i think they have pieces playoff teams might want for a playoff run. I ju8st don't think those same pieces work well here.

That's why I think he could get us a 2nd at the deadline. GMs start thinking, you know if I just had one more physical dman, we could be a real contender etc... Next thing you know the 2nd rounders are flying off the shelves!
- BiggE

As the season progresses, management will have a better idea of which of the AHL Dmen could legitimately crack the Flyers' lineup next year. With any luck, they'll have a few guys available to deal at the deadline.

- Tomahawk

Apparently the guy who threw the hit is 16 years old, and is 5'6 143 lb.

http://files.eliteprospec.../player.php?player=214261

As the season progresses, management will have a better idea of which of the AHL Dmen could legitimately crack the Flyers' lineup next year. With any luck, they'll have a few guys available to deal at the deadline.
- tangent_man

If the Flyers are in the playoff picture at the deadline, I don't see them as sellers. Regardless of how well the AHL defenseman progress.

So if Douglas Murray can land 2 2nd's, then what do you we think a 25-27 year old version of Coburn cost?

This is what infuriates me about this fan base. Complain time after time that the team doesn't develop young talent, team finally goes out and gets young talent, and prospects, fans impatient demand a trade for young talent.

Couturier, Schenn, even Luke Schenn--these pieces need to develop. They need to grow into roles that will work out. Because let me tell you, trading Brayden Schenn for Gormley is a terrible idea. Gormley has only played five games, I heard? Why do you think that is?
- KGBflyers10

I don't think Luke Schenn is going to develop much more. He is what he is. I think the thing with B.Schenn is we know moving forward the Flyers seem to prefer having Giroux and Couturier as their 1-2 and then see Laughton as their 3rd shutdown guy. They are trying to get B.Schenn going on the wing but if he can't then they might as well look to get a better fitting asset. I think the Flyers would love if Schenn would take to wing and become a nice powerford type.

Didn't Douglass Murray land the Sharks 2 2nds?
- BiggE

He did. And an aging Alexei poopnik landed the Flyers Braydon Coburn. And Scott Gomez landed Higgins + McDonagh. But those deals are few and far between.

He did. I just can't realistically expect that scenario to repeat itself.
- Jsaquella

Yeah, Murray was the exception.


Think Grossmann's value is more along these lines:

Robidas, 4th-rounder
Weaver, 5th-rounder
Schultz, 5th-rounder
Fraser, ECHL goon
Gleason, J-M Liles' contract
Smid, two low-end prospects

I wouldn't be suprised. Teams get desperat. Buffalo got a 1st rounder from Nashville for Paul Gaudstad. a 4th line center. When teams are trying to make the playoffs or need insurance they will pay. I could see Grossmann and Schenn getting 2nd rounders depending on the team. Coburn I could see possibly getting a 1st rounder. Prices go up at the TDL and especially if you can get Team A and Team B in a bidding war.
- J35Bacher

Teams get desperate, but Grossmann is still struggling with the after effects of his injury and has another year left after this one at $3.5mm. There's other, more attractive players, who cost less money and have expiring deals. Guys like Jan Hedja, Tim Gleason or even Michal Roszival.

To be fair...

1. Phoenix notoriously allows their prospects to develop in the minor for years
2. Portland Pirates were really bad last year, and not great the two previous seasons
3. He has the tools to be a top-4, two-way defenseman

I'm not saying a Schenn for Gormley trade would be fair or not, but I think Brandon's a perfect target for the Flyers. Good buy-low candidate who could end up being a steal.
- bradleyc4

As of right now, I think Gormley could garner a price similar to when Runblad was traded to Phoenix from Ottawa. Rundblad and a 2nd for Turris. Turris was an underperforming yet talented player. He was even less proven than BSchenn at the time.

If the Flyers are in the playoff picture at the deadline, I don't see them as sellers. Regardless of how well the AHL defenseman progress.
- MJL

If they are going to hang their goalie out to dry like they did on Saturday we will be sellers at trade deadline.
There is no reason why Hextall should not be able to make a deal that will improve this team that will improve our chances of being in playoffs

Teams get desperate, but Grossmann is still struggling with the after effects of his injury and has another year left after this one at $3.5mm. There's other, more attractive players, who cost less money and have expiring deals. Guys like Jan Hedja, Tim Gleason or even Michal Roszival.
- Jsaquella

There are. I have no clue what teams will do this year. Just more or less saying teams make dumb deals because they feel like one more player might help solidfy things. A shot blocker, defensive dman like Grossmann would really help a team needing pk'er and physicality on the back end for the playoffs. Myabe a western conference team because of all the big centers out their.

There are. I have no clue what teams will do this year. Just more or less saying teams make dumb deals because they feel like one more player might help solidfy things. A shot blocker, defensive dman like Grossmann would really help a team needing pk'er and physicality on the back end for the playoffs. Myabe a western conference team because of all the big centers out their.
- J35Bacher

Maybe the Flyers could use him for a playoff run if they're in contention.

Winnipeg apparently cant put the puck in the net. I would really not be all that surprised if that is the team BSchenn ends up getting dealt to. Should he be dealt.

I assume Bogo or Buff would be the targets. Kane isn't coming here unless we part with a lot more. They overvalue the poop outta him.

Maybe the Flyers could use him for a playoff run if they're in contention.
- jmatchett383

And I would be ok with that as well.

I just don't want to them to sit on their hands if there are deals to make. I always get visions of the Phillies who tried to keep being competitive when they could have made deals so the future wasn't so bleak. I thought the Phillies should have moved Utley and Rollins earlier when they had value and could get players to help in moving forward

And I would be ok with that as well.

I just don't want to them to sit on their hands if there are deals to make. I always get visions of the Phillies who tried to keep being competitive when they could have made deals so the future wasn't so bleak. I thought the Phillies should have moved Utley and Rollins earlier when they had value and could get players to help in moving forward
- J35Bacher

If the current Flyers group wins Cup, they can keep the same roster until those players are well into their 80's.

But yes, I agree that, if there is a deal that helps the team both now and in the future, then go for it. But don't make deals just for the sake of making deals to see the greener grass.

There are. I have no clue what teams will do this year. Just more or less saying teams make dumb deals because they feel like one more player might help solidfy things. A shot blocker, defensive dman like Grossmann would really help a team needing pk'er and physicality on the back end for the playoffs. Myabe a western conference team because of all the big centers out their.
- J35Bacher

It's possible. I'm not totally discounting the possibility, I just have more modest expectations.

Winnipeg apparently cant put the puck in the net. I would really not be all that surprised if that is the team BSchenn ends up getting dealt to. Should he be dealt.

I assume Bogo or Buff would be the targets. Kane isn't coming here unless we part with a lot more. They overvalue the poop outta him.
- hereticpride

Schenn, Schenn, Hagg, 2nd + ??? for Trouba