The fourth line was effective in the previous games. I just don't see the need to sit a 24 year old guy, who is getting his first real NHL shot, to dress a 27 year old guy who has had opportunities in the past and failed to capitalize on them.

The same goes for Gustafsson. Yes, neither is likely to be much more than an average NHLer. But rather than playing them behind guys who have pretty much proven they are NHL/AHL bubble guys at best, I'd prefer to see them play night in and out for a more extended period of time
- Jsaquella

But that 27 year old plays PK, can center the 4th line, takes PK minutes off Giroux and has size and plays a good defensive game. I don't know why I need to see a below average skater, below average defensive player that doe have skill but is limited in size playing. What he does well doesn't outweigh his limitations. Hell Ryan White would probably be playing before him if he wasn't hurt.

Don't you think that is what's going on. We have almost all our solid prospects in the minors or junior. They could have easily made a case for Morin or Gostisbiere or Laughton or Leirer to stick and no one could argue that. They are letting them develop in the AHL and playing a flawed roster just to do so.
- J35Bacher

They certainly could have. And organizationally, they are looking towards the future and trying to do a better job of developing players and being patient with the developmental process. It's been a breath of fresh air.

Yes they want more out of Couturier offensivly but they also want his defensive game to. Does Bergeron only get offensive zone starts? No He goes against the top lines and still produces. What they want from Couturier is to still play his d game but now use the confidence and take some chances in the offensive zone. He is also getting some PP time now too so he can get some offensive chances.
- J35Bacher

I'm not saying to give Couturier just offensive zone starts. However, a 70% D-zone start ratio is asinine. Do you know what Bergeron's is? 49.75% Bergeron has 57 D-zone starts this season. He also has 56 O-Zone starts. Couturier's raw start numbers? 23 offensive zone starts to 54 D-zone starts. That's a ridiculously heavy defensive load to ask a guy to carry AND develop his offensive game at the same time.

I'd be ecstatic if the Flyers gave Couturier the same zone start ratios as the Bruins give to Bergeron.

Everyone knows the Flyers are flawed because of the make up. But what more do you want Berube to do. Guys like Schenn and Couturier who are still young and developing are getting plenty of chances. Sometimes it is up to the player to do something for himself
- J35Bacher

I want Berube to give younger players the opportunity to develop. Stop shifting their positions and linemates, as in the case of Schenn. Give them more offensive opportunities in the case of Couturier. Allow them to play through their mistakes, which didn't happen(at least to the degree that others got) in the cases of Gustafsson and Akeson.

Yeah, the 86 games he coached last season (including playoffs) apparently don't count.

It's poop like that that causes me to not respond to his posts. It's not all garbage, but he routinely mischaracterizes things people say, ignores obvious sarcasm and beats people over the head with his opinion as if it's widely accepted fact.
- Jsaquella

Well if last year does count, then how can you not take into account the outstanding job he did in turning the team around and getting them into the playoffs? Nothing was mischaracterized. It's blatantly obvious that the criticism is based on the start to the season. Because we all know if the Flyers had gotten off to a hot start, that talk wouldn't be happening. And frankly, most of the criticism being directed towards Berube is flat out laughable.

But that 27 year old plays PK, can center the 4th line, takes PK minutes off Giroux and has size and plays a good defensive game. I don't know why I need to see a below average skater, below average defensive player that doe have skill but is limited in size playing. What he does well doesn't outweigh his limitations. Hell Ryan White would probably be playing before him if he wasn't hurt.
- J35Bacher

Claude Giroux has had 10 seconds of PK ice time over 5 games this season. VandeVelde didn't play on the PK at all vs Dallas.

He's adequate defensively, not good. If he was good, he wouldn't be a career AHLer.

What you're missing is, when Akeson has been on the ice, more often than not, the Flyers have had possession of the puck. He's helped generate that possession time, and when you have the puck, you spend less time defending.

Well if last year does count, then how can you not take into account the outstanding job he did in turning the team around and getting them into the playoffs? Nothing was mischaracterized. It's blatantly obvious that the criticism is based on the start to the season. Because we all know if the Flyers had gotten off to a hot start, that talk wouldn't be happening. And frankly, most of the criticism being directed towards Berube is flat out laughable.
- MJL

Lot's of absolutes and no room for interpretation in the above statement.

I think you're overvaluing Berube's impact on the success of the team last year. Sure, his coaching contributed in some ways to their success, but a large part of the team's turnaround was due to Giroux finding his rhythm and the rest of the top players following suit.

In.

My.

Opinion.

They certainly could have. And organizationally, they are looking towards the future and trying to do a better job of developing players and being patient with the developmental process. It's been a breath of fresh air.



I'm not saying to give Couturier just offensive zone starts. However, a 70% D-zone start ratio is asinine. Do you know what Bergeron's is? 49.75% Bergeron has 57 D-zone starts this season. He also has 56 O-Zone starts. Couturier's raw start numbers? 23 offensive zone starts to 54 D-zone starts. That's a ridiculously heavy defensive load to ask a guy to carry AND develop his offensive game at the same time.

I'd be ecstatic if the Flyers gave Couturier the same zone start ratios as the Bruins give to Bergeron.


I want Berube to give younger players the opportunity to develop. Stop shifting their positions and linemates, as in the case of Schenn. Give them more offensive opportunities in the case of Couturier. Allow them to play through their mistakes, which didn't happen(at least to the degree that others got) in the cases of Gustafsson and Akeson.
- Jsaquella

I think he does let them play though mistakes. In Schenns case it wasn't a mistake it was effort and that is what was unacceptable to him. And some guys will always get more leeway then others.

But you can't just throw away the season to accomadate few. If they had a resonable option to take more defensive draws i am sure they would love to limit Couturier there but as it is now they have no other options until probably Laughton is up.



We need to move on from Akeson and the Gustafson debate. I don't think the Flyers thought or think of them as legit prospects. Just players that maybe they hit maybe they don't. I don't even know if Akeson is back next year unless he takes a two way deal because some of our other prospects might be ready. And if gustafson was such a talent I am sure other NHL teams would have tried to get him before he went overseas.

Don't you think that is what's going on. We have almost all our solid prospects in the minors or junior. They could have easily made a case for Morin or Gostisbiere or Laughton or Leirer to stick and no one could argue that. They are letting them develop in the AHL and playing a flawed roster just to do so.

Yes they want more out of Couturier offensivly but they also want his defensive game to. Does Bergeron only get offensive zone starts? No He goes against the top lines and still produces. What they want from Couturier is to still play his d game but now use the confidence and take some chances in the offensive zone. He is also getting some PP time now too so he can get some offensive chances.

Everyone knows the Flyers are flawed because of the make up. But what more do you want Berube to do. Guys like Schenn and Couturier who are still young and developing are getting plenty of chances. Sometimes it is up to the player to do something for himself
- J35Bacher

That's blashphemy! Brayded Schenn in the first 3 games of the season, wasn't moving his feet, wasn't hard on the puck, and wasn't an effective player. So the Coach moved a young player off the top line and demoted him! How silly of Berube to do that? What Coach does that when the player himself isn't playing with the effort he's capable of? What a bonehead coaching move! And then, after getting that message sent to him, Schenn responds with two strong games, in which he receives 20 minutes if ice time in both games. Which is the Coach rewarding a player with icetime for effective and strong play! What a flawed coaching philosophy that is. Demote a player and take away icetime when he's not bringing the effort. And rewarding a player when he is playing with strong effort. Somebody should tell Berube that's not how it works. That's not sound coaching strategy.

And as far as Couturier is concerned. The Flyers range as a team from being at best inconsistent as a team defensively, to be downright awful as a team defensively. So the Coach uses his best defensive center and defensive line in defensive role, and D zone starts, against other teams top lines I mean what the hell is Berube doing there? He has no clue! What Coach does that!

C'mon fellas... we're on a pts streak here. Let's just get along okay?

Blackhawks 4 flyers 1 final score patty Kane 2 goals and towes 2 goals

That's blashphemy! Brayded Schenn in the first 3 games of the season, wasn't moving his feet, wasn't hard on the puck, and wasn't an effective player. So the Coach moved a young player off the top line and demoted him! How silly of Berube to do that? What Coach does that when the player himself isn't playing with the effort he's capable of? What a bonehead coaching move! And then, after getting that message sent to him, Schenn responds with two strong games, in which he receives 20 minutes if ice time in both games. Which is the Coach rewarding a player with icetime for effective and strong play! What a flawed coaching philosophy that is. Demote a player and take away icetime when he's not bringing the effort. And rewarding a player when he is playing with strong effort. Somebody should tell Berube that's not how it works. That's not sound coaching strategy.

And as far as Couturier is concerned. The Flyers range as a team from being at best inconsistent as a team defensively, to be downright awful as a team defensively. So the Coach uses his best defensive center and defensive line in defensive role, and D zone starts, against other teams top lines I mean what the hell is Berube doing there? He has no clue! What Coach does that!
- MJL

Shades of John Stevens debates flicker through my head.

The fourth line was effective in the previous games. I just don't see the need to sit a 24 year old guy, who is getting his first real NHL shot, to dress a 27 year old guy who has had opportunities in the past and failed to capitalize on them.


- Jsaquella

Because the 27 year old player who is busting his ass in practice and busted it to earn a spot on the team in the pre season, deserves just as much of a chance to play. Akeson had 4 games, and although he didn't play poorly. He also didn't play well enough to the point that they can't take him out. So now it's Jones turn to see what he can do. It's called competition for ice time. Another puzzling move by a Coach.

I think he does let them play though mistakes. In Schenns case it wasn't a mistake it was effort and that is what was unacceptable to him. And some guys will always get more leeway then others.


We need to move on from Akeson and the Gustafson debate. I don't think the Flyers thought or think of them as legit prospects. Just players that maybe they hit maybe they don't. I don't even know if Akeson is back next year unless he takes a two way deal because some of our other prospects might be ready. And if gustafson was such a talent I am sure other NHL teams would have tried to get him before he went overseas.
- J35Bacher

Again, I specifically noted that he didn't allow Akeson or Gustafsson to play through mistakes to the extent others did. Yes, Schenn has been allowed to play through mistakes and ineffective periods.

As for guys like Gustafsson and Akeson being legit prospects...why not give them an extended opportunity to prove or disprove it? As for other teams taking a shot at Gustafsson, Mark Giordano had to head off to Europe to play at one point, because nobody was willing to take a chance on him. Now he's a very solid, top pair defenseman for a NHL team

C'mon fellas... we're on a pts streak here. Let's just get along okay?
- mayorofangrytown

mayorofsedativetown

That's blashphemy! Brayded Schenn in the first 3 games of the season, wasn't moving his feet, wasn't hard on the puck, and wasn't an effective player. So the Coach moved a young player off the top line and demoted him! How silly of Berube to do that? What Coach does that when the player himself isn't playing with the effort he's capable of? What a bonehead coaching move! And then, after getting that message sent to him, Schenn responds with two strong games, in which he receives 20 minutes if ice time in both games. Which is the Coach rewarding a player with icetime for effective and strong play! What a flawed coaching philosophy that is. Demote a player and take away icetime when he's not bringing the effort. And rewarding a player when he is playing with strong effort. Somebody should tell Berube that's not how it works. That's not sound coaching strategy.

And as far as Couturier is concerned. The Flyers range as a team from being at best inconsistent as a team defensively, to be downright awful as a team defensively. So the Coach uses his best defensive center and defensive line in defensive role, and D zone starts, against other teams top lines I mean what the hell is Berube doing there? He has no clue! What Coach does that!
- MJL

I don't know if your agreeing with me or not? I am slow

I don't know if your agreeing with me or not? I am slow
- J35Bacher

Complete mischaracterization ond over-exaggeration of a point made by others he disagrees with.

I disagree with Berube's usage of some players. I think the younger players would be better served in other ways. It's not puzzling or blasphemy that Berube does what he does. I understand what he's doing. I just disagree with it and wish he was more patient with certain guys.

Nothing really outrageous there, but when you mischaracterize it and over-exaggerate it, it sounds terrible.

Again, I specifically noted that he didn't allow Akeson or Gustafsson to play through mistakes to the extent others did. Yes, Schenn has been allowed to play through mistakes and ineffective periods.

As for guys like Gustafsson and Akeson being legit prospects...why not give them an extended opportunity to prove or disprove it? As for other teams taking a shot at Gustafsson, Mark Giordano had to head off to Europe to play at one point, because nobody was willing to take a chance on him. Now he's a very solid, top pair defenseman for a NHL team
- Jsaquella

Yes it did work out for Giordano but how many more can you name? There will always be an exception. Myabe gustafson will find someone to take another chance on him. I don't know. But while here he didn't do enough to cement a role on the team. Same for Akeson. Guys that aren't big prospects are only going to get so many chances to make an impression. Yes he played well against the Rangers but he needed to carry that this year. Unfortunatly the coaches haven't seen something they liked.

Complete mischaracterization ond over-exaggeration of a point made by others he disagrees with.

I disagree with Berube's usage of some players. I think the younger players would be better served in other ways. It's not puzzling or blasphemy that Berube does what he does. I understand what he's doing. I just disagree with it and wish he was more patient with certain guys.

Nothing really outrageous there, but when you mischaracterize it and over-exaggerate it, it sounds terrible.
- Jsaquella

IT'S TURRIBLE!!!!

Yes it did work out for Giordano but how many more can you name? There will always be an exception. Myabe gustafson will find someone to take another chance on him. I don't know. But while here he didn't do enough to cement a role on the team. Same for Akeson. Guys that aren't big prospects are only going to get so many chances to make an impression. Yes he played well against the Rangers but he needed to carry that this year. Unfortunatly the coaches haven't seen something they liked.
- J35Bacher

There's always exceptions. I'd just rather see a kid like Akeson or Gustafsson play than a guy like Meszaros or VandeVelde. Because they didn't do enough to cement a role either.

I get why Berube made the choices he did, I just disagree with him.

What's your prediction?
- 3flyerkids

we git rekt

IT'S TURRIBLE!!!!
- hammarby31

Ok, Charles

mayorofsedativetown
- Doc_Sarcasm

Because the 27 year old player who is busting his ass in practice and busted it to earn a spot on the team in the pre season, deserves just as much of a chance to play. Akeson had 4 games, and although he didn't play poorly. He also didn't play well enough to the point that they can't take him out. So now it's Jones turn to see what he can do. It's called competition for ice time. Another puzzling move by a Coach.
- MJL

Berube cast Akeson, a player with offensive skills, in a defensive/forechecking role. Big surprise that he didn't "play well."

It's like asking a cat to bark, and getting mad at the cat for not being able to do it.

The root of the issues with Berube, that I've seen, stem from his inability to get the most out of this roster. We all know he hasn't been dealt a great hand. But many feel like he could do more.

Things like:

- Overplaying/overvaluing Andrew MacDonald
- Under-utilizing Jake Voracek at even-strength
- Overplaying/overvaluing R.J. Umberger
- Overplaying/overvaluing Vinny Lecavalier
- How he handles the goaltending starting assignments
- Not giving Brayden Schenn more of an opportunity at 1LW
- Not giving Matt Read a chance at 1LW
- Not putting Jason Akeson in more of an offensive role
- Not developing Sean Couturier's offensive game

So you may disagree with each of these points, but that doesn't change my opinion on how I would handle the team.

There's always exceptions. I'd just rather see a kid like Akeson or Gustafsson play than a guy like Meszaros or VandeVelde.

I get why Berube made the choices he did, I just disagree with him.
- Jsaquella

I think Berube would rather not have any of them. But just waiting for the prospects to come up

Because the 27 year old player who is busting his ass in practice and busted it to earn a spot on the team in the pre season, deserves just as much of a chance to play. Akeson had 4 games, and although he didn't play poorly. He also didn't play well enough to the point that they can't take him out. So now it's Jones turn to see what he can do. It's called competition for ice time. Another puzzling move by a Coach.
- MJL

not to pile on or anything...I think size also had to do with it. Dallas isnt exactly tiny and you have Rousell and Garbutt (not grab butt Giroux haters) to deal with., so maybe it was as simple as if all else is even...go with size.

- Not giving Matt Read a chance at 1LW
- bradleyc4

Except maybe Matt Read isn't good at the left wing and prefers the right.