"Jump" and "emotion" are cliches that attempt to distill complex problems with a team down to one over simple catch all explanation. There's a lot more wrong with this team right now than "wanting it" enough. The flaws are many and fundamental.
- Tomahawk

You are right, they have some coverage and execution issues. But that is amplified when a team doesn't compete and play with urgency.

"Jump" and "emotion" are cliches that attempt to distill complex problems with a team down to one over simple catch all explanation. There's a lot more wrong with this team right now than "wanting it" enough. The flaws are many and fundamental.
- Tomahawk

This!!

"Jump" and "emotion" are cliches that attempt to distill complex problems with a team down to one over simple catch all explanation. There's a lot more wrong with this team right now than "wanting it" enough.
- Tomahawk

Absolutely. The roster as it currently stands is a mess. That's fine. But when you couple it with a complete lack of "jump" or "emotion" it makes things much worse than they already are. If they lose a game 4-0 because Chicago is just better, fine. But hell, Chicago basically coasted after the first 2 goals because the Flyers had no fight in them, aside from sporadic spurts here and there. I'm okay with losing to a better team, but at least make them work their butts off to beat you.

If they had kept their feet moving, actually played well positionally, and didn't stand around in the defensive zone waiting for bad things to happen, they could have put up a more respectable fight. On the first 2 goals, you had guys way out of position, no one picking up loose players, and players basically either standing around or scrambling wildly covering no one. That won't work against ANY team.
- jmatchett383

The Penguins might very will shred this Flyers team to pieces tonight. It shouldn't be too bad as long as they stay out of the box.

Absolutely. The roster as it currently stands is a mess. That's fine. But when you couple it with a complete lack of "jump" or "emotion" it makes things much worse than they already are. If they lose a game 4-0 because Chicago is just better, fine. But hell, Chicago basically coasted after the first 2 goals because the Flyers had no fight in them, aside from sporadic spurts here and there. I'm okay with losing to a better team, but at least make them work their butts off to beat you.
- jmatchett383

Yes, that's worse. I don't think they have enough talent in either zone.
- ManCity

Especially in the defensive department. We run a center lock system (supposedly) which puts a big emphasis pressure. We move on from Hartnell for the much better and more versatile player in Umberger, we moved Schenn to wing, we sit Akeson, and we have a litany of two way players... yet some how its always a winger that made the mistake that cost a goal.

Here is the difference between great defenses and bad defense. With a good defense, they clean up the inevitable mistakes that are caused by the forwards.

Bad defenses make you notice mistakes by the forwards.

Then let them. Where are they in the standings? When was the last tine they made the playoffs?
- hereticpride

Winnipeg is basically where the Flyers hope to be in 2 years.

You constantly tell people that they are wrong about "insert marginal d-man/winger here". How the flyers have 112 NHL d-men who are more than your run of the mill 4-5-6 guy.
- jak521

This makes zero sense and really doesn't have anything to do with the post you quoted. What are you most interested in talking about? The game and how they played, or are you just focused on the poster?

If they aren't going to make a trade, I would try this. #Keep10and40apart

Bellemare-Giroux-Voracek
BSchenn-Couturier-Read
Raffl-Lecavalier-Simmonds
Umberger-Laughton-Akeson

In reality the 4th line would probably be Rinaldo-Jones-Umberger, but it would still be a better mix in the top 12 than last night.

Winnipeg is basically where the Flyers hope to be in 2 years.
- jmatchett383

Lol.

Agree to disagree.

No matter how hard they play, this current roster is what it is. Solid up front and in goal and crappy on D. With everyone healthy and firing on all cylinders, they are a 92-95 point club at best. Factor in injuries, they'll be lucky to break 85

Especially in the defensive department. We run a center lock system (supposedly) which puts a big emphasis pressure. We move on from Hartnell for the much better and more versatile player in Umberger, we moved Schenn to wing, we sit Akeson, and we have a litany of two way players... yet some how its always a winger that made the mistake that cost a goal.

Here is the difference between great defenses and bad defense. With a good defense, they clean up the inevitable mistakes that are caused by the forwards.

Bad defenses make you notice mistakes by the forwards.
- jak521

The best defensive teams limit the mistakes made. And you're right, the Flyers don't have the defense to make up for a lack of team defense and coverage errors all over the ice. But that's not how you should play anyway. So it's foolish to blame the defense because they can't cover up for other players mistakes.

And some people are in denial that the game isn't about spreadsheets, graphs, or bar charts. Coming back in games in the NHL takes resiliency, and if a team that is down at any point in the game, doesn't elevate and raise their game, they aren't coming back in a game down 3-0. Take a look at the percentages of teams leading after 1, and leading after 2 periods?
And my point is that if the Flyers played with that level of urgency, the majority of the games, they'd have a better record, and they'd have competed better in last night's game.

It's too easy for some to cop out, and say they just don't have a good defense. It's the same as the national media always blaming the goaltending.
- MJL

And some are in denial about new and improved analysis of the game.

No one has said it's all or only about spreadsheets and stats. There's a human element and a whole lot of randomness in the game that no one can ever quantify or control.

But, what you can do, is look for inefficiencies. Look for new ways to get a competitive advantage. That's what many of the recently successful teams like the Blackhawks and Kings have done. It doesn't always work, but they feel like they've targeted a few things that are controllable on the ice and also correlate to winning hockey games.

The words, "playing with emotion," have been stated a lot, but I don't think that helps any. IMO it's better to play with a clear head. Go out, do what you have to do, get off the ice.
Approach the game with some clarity. Work harder then your opponent.

No matter how hard they play, this current roster is what it is. Solid up front and in goal and crappy on D. With everyone healthy and firing on all cylinders, they are a 92-95 point club at best. Factor in injuries, they'll be lucky to break 85
- BiggE

1 game with Coburn - 2 goals against
5 games without Coburn- 21 goals against (one empty netter)

"Jump" and "emotion" are cliches that attempt to distill complex problems with a team down to one over simple catch all explanation. There's a lot more wrong with this team right now than "wanting it" enough. The flaws are many and fundamental.
- Tomahawk

You are right, they have some coverage and execution issues. But that is amplified when a team doesn't compete and play with urgency.
- MJL

It's also amplified by when your team has a general deficiency in talent, mediocre coaching, and/or poor tactics.

It's also amplified by when your team has a general deficiency in talent, mediocre coaching, and/or poor tactics.
- Tomahawk

It's also amplified by when your team has a general deficiency in talent, mediocre coaching, and/or poor tactics.
- Tomahawk

I think you guys are actually agreeing but fighting for the sake of it. You're both saying the same thing, but failing to acknowledge the other side.

"Jump" and "emotion" are cliches that attempt to distill complex problems with a team down to one over simple catch all explanation. There's a lot more wrong with this team right now than "wanting it" enough. The flaws are many and fundamental.
- Tomahawk

Beat me to it, and stated it much more eloquently.

"Jump" and "emotion" are cliches that attempt to distill complex problems with a team down to one over simple catch all explanation. There's a lot more wrong with this team right now than "wanting it" enough. The flaws are many and fundamental.
- Tomahawk

+1

You could also argue that a team plays with more "jump" when they're winning because they're winning and with less "jump" when they're losing because they're losing. So the winning team had "jump" and the losing team didn;'t and that was the reason for the outcome when in reality, the winning team was just better for matchup-wise, etc. Just some food for thought, more of a psychological theory than a tangible one.

And some are in denial about new and improved analysis of the game.

No one has said it's all or only about spreadsheets and stats. There's a human element and a whole lot of randomness in the game that no one can ever quantify or control.

But, what you can do, is look for inefficiencies. Look for new ways to get a competitive advantage. That's what many of the recently successful teams like the Blackhawks and Kings have done. It doesn't always work, but they feel like they've targeted a few things that are controllable on the ice and also correlate to winning hockey games.
- bradleyc4

Anytime you want to discuss anything about analytics, let me know. And you'll find out that I'm as well informed on them as any fan. The difference is that I know their relevance to the game. And I put them in their proper place and give them the proper weight. Where as for some, every point of analysis has analytics behind it. And I think that's just because they can't spot or see the things on the ice that really truly matter.

It's also amplified by when your team has a general deficiency in talent, mediocre coaching, and/or poor tactics.
- Tomahawk

The Flyers are a lesser talented team then some teams, especially Chicago. Which is why they have to compete and play with urgency to have a chance. The Flyers don't have mediocre coaching or poor tactics.

No one has said it's all or only about spreadsheets and stats. There's a human element and a whole lot of randomness in the game that no one can ever quantify or control.
- bradleyc4

Score effects = human nature.

Has nothing to do w math... it's no different than the old "two-goal lead is the worst lead in hockey" saying. Just a more elegant/encapsulating way to relay the idea.