Here is the dilemma. If we trade those two than we really have zero defense. We become a lock for McDavid/Ecikelske skirt steak, and then we have to hear from those flightless birds in Pitt.
- jak521

i don't give 2 poops about what a penguin fan has to say outside of the leafs they're they biggest losers in hockey and if a penguin fan had the balls to talk poop to me IRL i'd do some IRL PVP

They absolutely could. The problem is, your defense next year is going to be noticeably worse without them.
- jmatchett383

And actually, there needs to be a balance too. If you get rid of 2 or 3 of these guys, it puts that much pressure on the young guys that you are bringing into the lineup. You truly need to ease them in...not baptism by fire. Or you need a 1 year rental for NEXT YEAR to lessen the load on the young kids.

yea but it's the same result... lose just that we'd have a better future
- 2Real

I see Coburn as part of the future. I know you hate him, but he's a mobile, 2/3 defenseman. Those don't grow on trees.

I'm ok with the prospects cutting their teeth against men in the AHL (or going back to their Jr teams). Also, I have very little confidence in Berube properly managing their roles and icetime. I could see Ghost coming in and getting Akeson'd -- Berube might bench him and say: "He needs to simplify his game and learn how to be a third pairing defensive d-man before he can play the role he's actually much better suited to play."


Also, I think many are reaching for anything that might improve the club or be more entertaining to watch than the current product. Personally, I don't think bringing up prospects is going to do much toward either end, and may end up being counter productive to the young players' development. I'm fine with the prospects being where they are, where they'll get big minutes and hopefully gain more size, hone their skills and gain more confidence...things that will likely benefit them once they make the big show.
- exlund

So we're keeping guys in the ahl to protect them from berube... Another thing that doesnt really get pointed out is: this team being "patient" is wasting the prime years of its current nucleus. Something needs to be dne now, sorry promote some of these prospects, see what they can do, move some of the fool's gold, get this team back i to contention.

I see Coburn as part of the future. I know you hate him, but he's a mobile, 2/3 defenseman. Those don't grow on trees.
- PhillySportsGuy

He definitely is part of the future. None of the prospects are coming in and being a 1st pair shutdown defender for quite some time.

I see Coburn as part of the future. I know you hate him, but he's a mobile, 2/3 defenseman. Those don't grow on trees.
- PhillySportsGuy

by the time we're contenders again he'll be early-mid 30's he's not a player that will age well because he's beyond dumb

Valid point. Look, I don't want to trade him. But whether Berube has a choice or not, he is not putting Coots in a position to succeed offensively, an expectation Berube set upon the player and talked about a lot about prior to the start of the season.

My worry is that the window is closing for Coots to develop any more offensive skill at the NHL level because of the overwhelming defensive zone starts he gets. I don't care how talented you are, your offensive production is going to be limited by the amount of defensive zone starts a player like Coots gets each game.
- mcefalu

I I always had mixed feelings about keeping Couturier on the roster as an 18 yr old but that said the kid is only 21 and has plenty of time to continue to grow. Look at a guy like Kesler who spent 2 yrs in the A and didn't break out offensively until he was 23-24 after several NHL seasons .

I'm ok with the prospects cutting their teeth against men in the AHL (or going back to their Jr teams). Also, I have very little confidence in Berube properly managing their roles and icetime. I could see Ghost coming in and getting Akeson'd -- Berube might bench him and say: "He needs to simplify his game and learn how to be a third pairing defensive d-man before he can play the role he's actually much better suited to play."


- exlund

First thing I want to say is that I like Akeson, and think that he has potential. And I'm no where near ready to give up on him. But in all honesty, as an unproven NHL rookie, what has he done that is so great, that he should be immune to being scratched? What has he done to earn a full time spot in the lineup? And Berube is 100% correct in what he says about Akeson. Akeson is not that skilled offensively, where he can live on his offensive ability, and build an NHL career off of that. Most likely, he offensive game alone will give him a better chance of being a career AHL player, then a full time NHL player. However, Akeson with an improved game away from the puck, and stronger on the puck, along with his offensive skill, gives Akeson a far better chance of building an NHL career. So Berube is not trying to make Akeson into something he's not. He's trying to get him to improve other areas, so he can be a full time NHL play.

Also, I think many are reaching for anything that might improve the club or be more entertaining to watch than the current product. Personally, I don't think bringing up prospects is going to do much toward either end, and may end up being counter productive to the young players' development. I'm fine with the prospects being where they are, where they'll get big minutes and hopefully gain more size, hone their skills and gain more confidence...things that will likely benefit them once they make the big show.
- exlund

Agree totally.

He definitely is part of the future. None of the prospects are coming in and being a 1st pair shutdown defender for quite some time.
- hereticpride

1st pair shutdown dman is someone like vlassic coburn is no where near that skill

I see Coburn as part of the future. I know you hate him, but he's a mobile, 2/3 defenseman. Those don't grow on trees.
- PhillySportsGuy

apparently they do in philly

So we're keeping guys in the ahl to protect them from berube... Another thing that doesnt really get pointed out is: this team being "patient" is wasting the prime years of its current nucleus. Something needs to be dne now, sorry promote some of these prospects, see what they can do, move some of the fool's gold, get this team back i to contention.
- JoeRussomanno

There is another option everyone seems to forget. Trading youth for youth. A lot of people here seem to think making a trade is mortgaging the future. If I can move a 23yr old for a 23-25yr old that actually fits the team, well I'm definitely making that move. They're called hockey trades. Not everything needs to be a blockbuster move that involves moving guys under 22 for a 30 yr old.

1st pair shutdown dman is someone like vlassic coburn is no where near that skill
- 2Real

Much closer than anyone in our system will be in the next three years.

Yeah Giroux doesn't have that same feistiness we've seen in years past. When he was a rookie in the playoffs against the Penguins, (when the Flyers were eliminated) he was one of the Flyers best forwards. Killing penalties and holding on to the puck by himself deep in the Penguins zone - killing precious seconds off of a Pittsburgh powerplay.

I just hope he doesn't evolve into a high-priced PP specialist because, damn. His payday has arrived but he's still in the shadows it seems.
- Pixote Andolini

How does the first 10 games in a season = the feistiness inherent to the playoffs? It makes no sense to compare those two.

At the end of the season Giroux will be what he has been over the past 4 years... Their best player and top 5 in scoring .

Right now I do not believe, regardless of offensive zone starts or not, enough of at least the threat of an offensive push from anyone other than Giroux, Simmonds and Jake.

There is another option everyone seems to forget. Trading youth for youth. A lot of people here seem to think making a trade is mortgaging the future. If I can move a 23yr old for a 23-25yr old that actually fits the team, well I'm definitely making that move. They're called hockey trades. Not everything needs to be a blockbuster move that involves moving guys under 22 for a 30 yr old.
- hereticpride

i don't give 2 poops about what a penguin fan has to say outside of the leafs they're they biggest losers in hockey and if a penguin fan had the balls to talk poop to me IRL i'd do some IRL PVP
- 2Real

What's IRL?

Much closer than anyone in our system will be in the next three years.
- hereticpride

just because he's forced into the role doesn't mean he is

What's IRL?
- Topshelf Mountain

check your privilege bro

Agree with your clarification. It's all statistics and probabilities anyway.

And, it might be a lot different if we were one or two pieces away from truly contending. NY got a huge boost from Kreider a few years back.

Then again, look at how that has turned out
- TheGreat28

Each guy is different. Luke Schenn and Luca Sbisa are thrown into the fire and never hit their max potential. Drew Doughty and Kris Letang come up young (Doughty his draft year and Letang played 10 AHL games) and are number 1 dmen. Then there are guys like Erik Johnson who struggle for awhile after being thrown into the fire and start putting it together later on. Might be it has nothing to do with being rushed or not. Might be that if I guy was going to pan out, he would unless the situation was excessively bad for him.

by the time we're contenders again he'll be early-mid 30's he's not a player that will age well because he's beyond dumb
- 2Real

lol. He's very mobile and big. I actually think he will age well. He'll be a good bridge to the young guys. If they can snag a guy like Ehrhoff in FA next offseason, it would solidify a top pair for a couple of years while the young guys get their feet wet. It would also push Streit and Amac back to the second pair.

Because everything is bigger in TEXAS
- PhillySportsGuy

(I want it!)

just because he's forced into the role doesn't mean he is
- 2Real

But he's better suited for the role over the next three years. Moreso than anyone we have in the system at the present time. And you want to move him with no one to fill the role?

Aren't you the one talking about not blowing a window of opportunity?

yea but it's the same result... lose just that we'd have a better future
- 2Real

Right, but when you start to put these kids into the NHL, you'd want some vets around them while they're adjusting. Do you want those vets to be AMac and MDZ?

(I want it!)
- Tomahawk

At least youd die happy

Each guy is different. Luke Schenn and Luca Sbisa are thrown into the fire and never hit their max potential. Drew Doughty and Kris Letang come up young (Doughty his draft year and Letang played 10 AHL games) and are number 1 dmen. Then there are guys like Erik Johnson who struggle for awhile after being thrown into the fire and start putting it together later on. Might be it has nothing to do with being rushed or not. Might be that if I guy was going to pan out, he would unless the situation was excessively bad for him.
- NickTheKid87

Mayhbe schenn and sbisa hit their potential, just not the one everyond hoped for

But he's better suited for the role over the next three years. Moreso than anyone we have in the system at the present time. And you want to move him with no one to fill the role?

Aren't you the one talking about not blowing a window of opportunity?
- hereticpride

You cannot convince 2real that Coburn is worth keeping. Just trust me