I think he will get AMac or above, that's the issue.

I like Petry, but he's more of the same. Got to stop paying top dollar for mid corps defensemen
- Jsaquella

So since losing Pronger and desperately needing a number defenseman, we've given out 5.25mm to Mark Streit, 5mm to Andrew MacDonald and 6 million for one extra year just to keep Kimmo Timonen around. We've also taken on Schenn's 3.6mm and resigned Grossmann to 3.5mm. It's not as if the Flyers haven't tried. The 24 hour 8mm offer sheet to Shea Weber was exciting.

The point I'm trying to make is, the Flyers haven't made things easy on themselves as far as wiggle room for this saviour we've been waiting to arrive on his white horse.

So since losing Pronger and desperately needing a number defenseman, we've given out 5.25mm to Mark Streit, 5mm to Andrew MacDonald and 6 million for one extra year just to keep Kimmo Timonen around. We've also taken on Schenn's 3.6mm and resigned Grossmann to 3.5mm. It's not as if the Flyers haven't tried. The 24 hour 8mm offer sheet to Shea Weber was exciting.

The point I'm trying to make is, the Flyers haven't made things easy on themselves as far as wiggle room for this saviour we've been waiting to arrive on his white horse.
- SuperSchennBros

That's why Hextall isn't trading away picks for more guys who are 2nd and 3rd pair guys and paying them the going rate in free agency. The Flyers have had one of, if not the most expensive defenses in the NHL the past few seasons and it's been largely mediocre.

The Flyers opening day defense was getting paid a combined $26.4mm. That's not counting Pronger, but it is counting Timonen. Los Angeles' D corps cost $7mm less. Chicago's was $4mm less. That's a great argument for waiting for the savior, rather than trying to replace a Pronger or Timonen by throwing a bunch of cash at a bunch of lesser guys.

Just because the Flyers are paying guys to be top pair defensemen, it doesn't mean they are.

great day Saturday at the Cape May Brewery and then a nice dinner and more beers at the Mad Batter. Sacrificed the Flyers to watch Penn State / tOSU. Great stuff. I looked at the Flyers score on Sunday and saw 4-2 and was like, awesome. Stat line not so much. Hope the club can stay the course and stay afloat to keep playing meaningful games. DO NOT trade future pieces to stay afloat. In Hexy we trust!

great day Saturday at the Cape May Brewery and then a nice dinner and more beers at the Mad Batter. Sacrificed the Flyers to watch Penn State / tOSU. Great stuff. I looked at the Flyers score on Sunday and saw 4-2 and was like, awesome. Stat line not so much. Hope the club can stay the course and stay afloat to keep playing meaningful games. DO NOT trade future pieces to stay afloat. In Hexy we trust!
- jstross

Hey! Those are my stamping grounds

Hey, I bet the Flyers could get Sbisa back for really cheap about now. He's looking like the son of Ryan Parent and 2010 Jaroslav Modry tonight

OT: Luongo = Good stuff on twitter.

This is how I feel on game days.... #happyhalloween http://t.co/Y7GEt4hkFy

— Strombone (@strombone1) October 27, 2014

OT: Luongo = Good stuff on twitter.

This is how I feel on game days.... #happyhalloween http://t.co/Y7GEt4hkFy

— Strombone (@strombone1) October 27, 2014

- moylander

Hey! Those are my stamping grounds
- Jsaquella

It's such a great town, especially in the fall. We went without the kids and I told the boss the computer was off for the weekend. Great times! Haven't done the wineries down there, but I heard they're good too.

It's such a great town, especially in the fall. We went without the kids and I told the boss the computer was off for the weekend. Great times! Haven't done the wineries down there, but I heard they're good too.
- jstross

Yeah, they're pretty popular. I have buddies who hit the brewery every Friday. It's a nice spot to have a beer or three and unwind.

That's why Hextall isn't trading away picks for more guys who are 2nd and 3rd pair guys and paying them the going rate in free agency. The Flyers have had one of, if not the most expensive defenses in the NHL the past few seasons and it's been largely mediocre.

The Flyers opening day defense was getting paid a combined $26.4mm. That's not counting Pronger, but it is counting Timonen. Los Angeles' D corps cost $7mm less. Chicago's was $4mm less. That's a great argument for waiting for the savior, rather than trying to replace a Pronger or Timonen by throwing a bunch of cash at a bunch of lesser guys.

Just because the Flyers are paying guys to be top pair defensemen, it doesn't mean they are.
- Jsaquella

I hate when comparisons like this are made, because they aren't good comparisons. In the case of Chicago, they have Duncan Keith who is signed to a long term back diving contract, that lowered the cap hit. If Keith was signed in the current CBA, his cap hit would be drastically higher.
LA just re-signed Jake Muzzin to a new deal, and Martinez is due a new deal. So their cap figure for their defense is going to go up.
The Flyers issue isn't paying guys to be top pair defenseman who aren't top pair, because they aren't doing that. The problem is that they haven't had any young defenseman break in on the team on EL deals with low cap hits, to lower the overall cost of the defense.

I hate when comparisons like this are made, because they aren't good comparisons. In the case of Chicago, they have Duncan Keith who is signed to a long term back diving contract, that lowered the cap hit. If Keith was signed in the current CBA, his cap hit would be drastically higher.
LA just re-signed Jake Muzzin to a new deal, and Martinez is due a new deal. So their cap figure for their defense is going to go up.
The Flyers issue isn't paying guys to be top pair defenseman who aren't top pair, because they aren't doing that. The problem is that they haven't had any young defenseman break in on the team on EL deals with low cap hits, to lower the overall cost of the defense.
- MJL

Way to completely miss the point.

I'm pointing out that the Flyers defense is built through trades and expensive free agent deals because they have been trying to replace Pronger & Timonen by trading for and signing guys like Streit, Grossmann and MacDonald, rather than growing them on the farm.

Disagree all you want, but either you failed to read it properly or again, as usual, are mischaracterizing the point made.

I hate when comparisons like this are made, because they aren't good comparisons. In the case of Chicago, they have Duncan Keith who is signed to a long term back diving contract, that lowered the cap hit. If Keith was signed in the current CBA, his cap hit would be drastically higher.
LA just re-signed Jake Muzzin to a new deal, and Martinez is due a new deal. So their cap figure for their defense is going to go up.
The Flyers issue isn't paying guys to be top pair defenseman who aren't top pair, because they aren't doing that. The problem is that they haven't had any young defenseman break in on the team on EL deals with low cap hits, to lower the overall cost of the defense.
- MJL

Which is what you get when you draft and develop.

Which is what you get when you draft and develop.
- Pixote Andolini

Which was the point I made. That's why I made the comparison. C'est la vie

Way to completely miss the point.

I'm pointing out that the Flyers defense is built through trades and expensive free agent deals because they have been trying to replace Pronger & Timonen by trading for and signing guys like Streit, Grossmann and MacDonald, rather than growing them on the farm.

Disagree all you want, but either you failed to read it properly or again, as usual, are mischaracterizing the point made.
- Jsaquella

You know it's not good for your blood pressure when you respond to "him".

Way to completely miss the point.

I'm pointing out that the Flyers defense is built through trades and expensive free agent deals because they have been trying to replace Pronger & Timonen by trading for and signing guys like Streit, Grossmann and MacDonald, rather than growing them on the farm.

Disagree all you want, but either you failed to read it properly or again, as usual, are mischaracterizing the point made.
- Jsaquella

I didn't miss any point. I was responding to an exact statement that you made. Which was and I quote " Just because the Flyers are paying guys to be top pair defensemen, it doesn't mean they are."
That is the statement that I disagreed with. That is not the issue. And also there is an issue when comparing players signed under different contract rules, in a different CBA. Also a team like LA, is going to have their defense spending go up when contracts for players like Muzzin kick in, and Martinez is re-signed.

It's pretty obvious that I agreed with the part of not drafting and developing young defenseman, which drives up players costs. Where I disagreed was on two points, that were made in your post. One, comparing costs to to other teams. And two stating that the Flyers are paying guys to be top pair defenseman, doesn't mean they are.

Which is what you get when you draft and develop.
- Pixote Andolini

Yep, that is the single biggest area of failure of the Flyers in recent times. Failing to draft and develop defenseman well.

Which was the point I made. That's why I made the comparison. C'est la vie
- Jsaquella

Keith and Martinez were drafted... Muzzin as a UFA out of junior... speaks to your point. They got a lot of good years out of them at really reasonable rates as a result... and then probably got hometown discounts for them once they actually were in position to cash in.

Kings also didn't sink huge money into UFA dmen... even when they could have used them... outside of Rob Scuderi. Dudes like Willie Mitchell and Regehr were signed to short-term deals, not 4+ year deals the Flyers have been giving out.

'Hawks were really fortunate to be able to get out from under the Montador and Campbell deals. There's just not enough CBO's to go around in Flyersland.

Keith and Martinez were drafted... Muzzin as a UFA out of junior... speaks to your point. They got a lot of good years out of them at really reasonable rates as a result... and then probably got hometown discounts for them once they actually were in position to cash in.

Kings also didn't sink huge money into UFA dmen... even when they could have used them... outside of Rob Scuderi. Dudes like Willie Mitchell and Regehr were signed to short-term deals, not 4+ year deals the Flyers have been giving out.

'Hawks were really fortunate to be able to get out from under the Montador and Campbell deals. There's just not enough CBO's to go around in Flyersland.
- Tomahawk

Offensive defenseman such as Mark Streit can command more in free agency then defensive defenseman such as Mitchell and Regehr can is most cases. That's the way it's always been. Muzzin was a player that was waived, and was out of job. What leverage did he have in contract negotiations when LA first acquired him?
And yes, the Flyers failure to draft and develop defenseman is an issue, and has been. Hopefully that is about to change soon.

At least we didn't trade for Voynov.

I really like how Hextall plans to handle Ghost. When they were showing those interview segments with Ghost during stoppages, he said Hextall told him he "wasn't the savior" and that he shouldn't try to be or do too much, just work on making this NHL stint a good experience. Hextall's walking the walk after talking the talk in regards to patience and such.

Offensive defenseman such as Mark Streit can command more in free agency then defensive defenseman such as Mitchell and Regehr can is most cases.
- MJL

It's more a matter of budgeting and forethought. There are d-dmen that get those kinds of contracts (Komisarek, Orpik, etc)... the Kings just avoided giving out any more of them out after they learned their lesson w/ Scuderi.

That's the way it's always been. Muzzin was a player that was waived, and was out of job. What leverage did he have in contract negotiations when LA first acquired him?
- MJL

He was (for all intents and purposes) an undrafted UFA. ELC rules applied.

And yes, the Flyers failure to draft and develop defenseman is an issue, and has been. Hopefully that is about to change soon.
- MJL

Hopefully their penchant for addressing large issues via UFA is also changing for good.

It's more a matter of budgeting and forethought. There are d-dmen that get those kinds of contracts (Komisarek, Orpik, etc)... the Kings just avoided giving out any more of them out after they learned their lesson w/ Scuderi.



He was (for all intents and purposes) an undrafted UFA. ELC rules applied.



Hopefully their penchant for addressing large issues via UFA is also changing for good.
- Tomahawk

There is no forethought when your franchise defenseman goes down to a career ending injury and forces you to make moves that you wouldn't have otherwise made. There are always exceptions to rules. For the most part, defensive stay at hime defenseman get less then two way offensive defenseman get on the market.
Exactly my point, Muzzin had zero leverage. So why bring him up as if the Kings exercised some great restraint there?
I hope the Flyers continue to use all avenues to make the team better, including Free Agency, when appropiate.

Keith and Martinez were drafted... Muzzin as a UFA out of junior... speaks to your point. They got a lot of good years out of them at really reasonable rates as a result... and then probably got hometown discounts for them once they actually were in position to cash in.

Kings also didn't sink huge money into UFA dmen... even when they could have used them... outside of Rob Scuderi. Dudes like Willie Mitchell and Regehr were signed to short-term deals, not 4+ year deals the Flyers have been giving out.

'Hawks were really fortunate to be able to get out from under the Montador and Campbell deals. There's just not enough CBO's to go around in Flyersland.
- Tomahawk

Exactly. The Flyers lost Pronger and decided to maintain a competitive team, and did so by being aggressive in trades & UFA, which resulted in basically paying retail for veterans and chasing the best players in a particular FA class.

The results have been mixed . The only young reasonably priced guy was buried by the coach, and the cheapest guy in the top six would have been the veteran Timonen on a bonus laden deal or MDZ the reclamation project.

Exactly. The Flyers lost Pronger and decided to maintain a competitive team, and did so by being aggressive in trades & UFA, which resulted in basically paying retail for veterans and chasing the best players in a particular FA class.

The results have been mixed . The only young reasonably priced guy was buried by the coach, and the cheapest guy in the top six would have been the veteran Timonen on a bonus laden deal or MDZ the reclamation project.
- Jsaquella

If the only young reasonably proced guy you're referring to, is Gustafsson. He wasn't buried by the Coach. The player didn't earn more playing time in the chances he got. Reality is he is at best a decent puck moving defenseman, who wasn't that good at it. Didn't provide much offense. And was undersized defensively. Not a good mixture.