no question, this element exists in sports.
but the Claude Lemieux example is one rooted in on-ice reputation regarding how he played the game. The Lindros stuff was based on an off-ice, personal matter with a 19-year-old player. I find it troubling that a ref can let that cross over into the game, and affect calls over the course of an entire career.
- Crimsoninja

It's unprofessional, IMO, and spiteful which is immature. Refs should separate themselves from players, especially if it has nothing to do with on-ice play.

Yes... the puck-over-the-glass incident in the AHL was one that Paul now admits he had no right not to call. He refused to enforce a new rule he disliked but that was not up to him to toss it out because he disliked it.

As far as the way games get called, you are theoretically right, but the reality is that no one wants every single technical infraction called.
- bmeltzer

Exactly. In the playoffs especially, and I know it's trite, but I always appreciate when the officials let the players just play and don't get so overly involved

Exactly. In the playoffs especially, and I know it's trite, but I always appreciate when the officials let the players just play and don't get so overly involved
- mcefalu

Unless stuff is blatant or directly affects a play at the time, I think they should let the minor stuff go. They do to a certain extent. I mean, look at Briere and Pronger who were notorious for slashes and jabs behind the play and when the puck wasn't near. That's not hurting anyone or the game being played.

It's unprofessional, IMO, and spiteful which is immature. Refs should separate themselves from players, especially if it has nothing to do with on-ice play.
- NickTheKid87

It's not like Eric Lindros was some Lady Byng candidate getting picked on. He took a lot of abuse -- players use to slash away, go for his knees and clutch and grab him all game long -- but he played on the edge of the rules all the time, too, especially with his stick.

I used to get much more frustrated on what opponents did that wasn't called than feeling Lindros himself was unfairly penalized.

Exactly. In the playoffs especially, and I know it's trite, but I always appreciate when the officials let the players just play and don't get so overly involved
- mcefalu

Then you get a legion of Red Wings fans crying when Shea Weber gets nothing for slamming Zetterberg's face into the glass. As a human being, I demanded a suspension. As a Shea Weber fan, I applauded.

Unless stuff is blatant or directly affects a play at the time, I think they should let the minor stuff go. They do to a certain extent. I mean, look at Briere and Pronger who were notorious for slashes and jabs behind the play and when the puck wasn't near. That's not hurting anyone or the game being played.
- NickTheKid87

Actually, it is. It's hurting the players they're slashing/jabbing.

To me, if it's not affecting the play, then why do it. A great example was OT of Game 2 vs. Pittsburgh in 2009. The Flyers got a PP which was nullified by a Knuble cross check in front. During the 4-on-4 play, Giroux slashed the stick of a player who had nothing to do with the play and broke it. This led to a 5-on-3 on which the Penguins scored and went on to win the series. It was a stupid play that had nothing to do with the puck carrier at the time, so why do it?

It's not like Eric Lindros was some Lady Byng candidate getting picked on. He took a lot of abuse -- players use to slash away, go for his knees and clutch and grab him all game long -- but he played on the edge of the rules all the time, too, especially with his stick.

I used to get much more frustrated on what opponents did that wasn't called than feeling Lindros himself was unfairly penalized.
- bmeltzer

Still, I hold by the idea that every player should be viewed objectively and penalties should be called or not-called on them objectively. That also means guys like Rinaldo don't get called for every little thing while players like Ryan O'Reilly get some slack because of reputation. I don't think reputation should be part of it. Unless we're taking about head shots or something.

Then you get a legion of Red Wings fans crying when Shea Weber gets nothing for slamming Zetterberg's face into the glass. As a human being, I demanded a suspension. As a Shea Weber fan, I applauded.
- jmatchett383

I mean I think there is a line somewhere. In terms of that particular situation, Weber deserved the penalty (probably should have been a major) and probably a suspension.

I guess I was referring more to stick infractions and boarder line roughing minors

I mean I think there is a line somewhere. In terms of that particular situation, Weber deserved the penalty (probably should have been a major) and probably a suspension.

I guess I was referring more to stick infractions and boarder line roughing minors
- mcefalu

Where do you stand on Hulk Hogan-style leg drops?

Actually, it is. It's hurting the players they're slashing/jabbing.

To me, if it's not affecting the play, then why do it. A great example was OT of Game 2 vs. Pittsburgh in 2009. The Flyers got a PP which was nullified by a Knuble cross check in front. During the 4-on-4 play, Giroux slashed the stick of a player who had nothing to do with the play and broke it. This led to a 5-on-3 on which the Penguins scored and went on to win the series. It was a stupid play that had nothing to do with the puck carrier at the time, so why do it?
- jmatchett383

It depends on the play. Pronger liked to play mind games so that's why he did it. Briere did it because he was small and couldn't body check players. A slash saying "don't mess with me" or "I'm messing with you" is not all that bad, IMO, but trying to seriously injure a player or taking a guy out of a play before it develops is stupid. Of course, some players know how to get away with it and others don't.

It's not like Eric Lindros was some Lady Byng candidate getting picked on. He took a lot of abuse -- players use to slash away, go for his knees and clutch and grab him all game long -- but he played on the edge of the rules all the time, too, especially with his stick.

I used to get much more frustrated on what opponents did that wasn't called than feeling Lindros himself was unfairly penalized.
- bmeltzer

It seemed like a chicken and egg problem with Lindros.

Lindros did those things because he didn't receive "superstar" protection from officials.

Because officials perceive that Eric gave as good as he got, officials turn a blind eye when Eric got fouled.

no question, this element exists in sports.
but the Claude Lemieux example is one rooted in on-ice reputation regarding how he played the game. The Lindros stuff was based on an off-ice, personal matter with a 19-year-old player. I find it troubling that a ref can let that cross over into the game, and affect calls over the course of an entire career.
- Crimsoninja

but but but stewie !!

Where do you stand on Hulk Hogan-style leg drops?
- jmatchett383

Hmmm...I'll allow it *waves hand nonchalantly*

Still, I hold by the idea that every player should be viewed objectively and penalties should be called or not-called on them objectively. That also means guys like Rinaldo don't get called for every little thing while players like Ryan O'Reilly get some slack because of reputation. I don't think reputation should be part of it. Unless we're taking about head shots or something.
- NickTheKid87

We all wish it were more like that, but it's definitely easier said than done.

It's also up to guys like Rinaldo and Downie to cultivate their reputations (since we/they/everybody knows that will come into the equation on benefit of the doubt type calls) versus sullying themselves the minute they step onto NHL ice. Same for the notorious divers, head shotters and stick artists. Don't want the rep? Reform your game. If Matt Cooke can earn back a modicum of respect, anybody can.

We all wish it were more like that, but it's definitely easier said than done.

It's also up to guys like Rinaldo and Downie to cultivate their reputations (since we/they/everybody knows that will come into the equation on benefit of the doubt type calls) versus sullying themselves the minute they step onto NHL ice. Same for the notorious divers, head shotters and stick artists. Don't want the rep? Reform your game. If Matt Cooke can earn back a modicum of respect, anybody can.
- Tomahawk

No doubt about that. I'm speaking in ideals but realistically, you're right. If you don't want the reputation than don't do things that will create it. Rinaldo was being treated more leniently in 2012-13 because he cleaned up his game a lot. He seems to have slipped back into his old ways since then but we at least know, as does he, that it is possible for him to shed the rep.

No doubt about that. I'm speaking in ideals but realistically, you're right. If you don't want the reputation than don't do things that will create it. Rinaldo was being treated more leniently in 2012-13 because he cleaned up his game a lot. He seems to have slipped back into his old ways since then but we at least know, as does he, that it is possible for him to shed the rep.
- NickTheKid87

I'm pleasantly surprised by Zac Rinaldo's 6 PIMs so far this year. I hope he can keep it up.

What's funny is that Crosby also has 6 PIMs. Flyers doing a good job staying out of the box so far.

I'm pleasantly surprised by Zac Rinaldo's 6 PIMs so far this year. I hope he can keep it up.

What's funny is that Crosby also has 6 PIMs. Flyers doing a good job staying out of the box so far.
- mcefalu

Yup. It's refreshing really. Maybe if they keep it up, people will start discarding the idea that the NHL is out to get the Flyers.

Bill Meltzer: Flyers Gameday: 10/30/14 @ TB, Phantoms Lose in OT, Quick Hits
- bmeltzer

haha I remember that goal by Brendl on Kolzig. It was a backhand flip from centre that Kolzig blew. Brendl was on the bench when it went in I think..

Actually, it is. It's hurting the players they're slashing/jabbing.

To me, if it's not affecting the play, then why do it. A great example was OT of Game 2 vs. Pittsburgh in 2009. The Flyers got a PP which was nullified by a Knuble cross check in front. During the 4-on-4 play, Giroux slashed the stick of a player who had nothing to do with the play and broke it. This led to a 5-on-3 on which the Penguins scored and went on to win the series. It was a stupid play that had nothing to do with the puck carrier at the time, so why do it?
- jmatchett383

those were good times.

Yup. It's refreshing really. Maybe if they keep it up, people will start discarding the idea that the NHL is out to get the Flyers.
- NickTheKid87

the lack of bias in this conversation makes me wriggle with delight

I'm pleasantly surprised by Zac Rinaldo's 6 PIMs so far this year. I hope he can keep it up.

What's funny is that Crosby also has 6 PIMs. Flyers doing a good job staying out of the box so far.
- mcefalu

How about PIM's/TOI?

the lack of bias in this conversation makes me wriggle with delight
- stayinthefnnet

Everyone knows the league is out to reward the Penguins though.

Everyone knows the league is out to reward the Penguins though.
- NickTheKid87

yeah. they certainly havent been doing a good enough job the last couple postseasons though.

i may have to send a few more hookers over ole uncle gary's this time to really make sure.

How about PIM's/TOI?
- flyguy12

6 PIM/67:52 TOI

Still much improved so far. We'll see if he can keep it up

yeah. they certainly havent been doing a good enough job the last couple postseasons though.

i may have to send a few more hookers over ole uncle gary's this time to really make sure.
- stayinthefnnet

What's he going to do with them? Watch sappy movies, eat ice cream and relate?