Flyers got ripped off big time. I hated the deal at the time and I still do. Schenn was becoming a routine healthy scratch for the Leafs. I thought Homer did a job overall during his tenure,but he truly got taken to the cleaners in this deal.
A Dman of Schenns ability would have been easy to add at a low price. JVR would have looked good with G and Jake.
- 3flyerkids

You don't have the facts straight. In 4 seasons with the Leafs, Schenn missed 18 games, 12 of which were due to a LBI in his rookie season. So a player who played in 79, 82, and 79 games in his other 3 seasons, is not a player who was becoming a routine healthy scratch. That is just plain false. Saying that they got ripped of taken to the cleaners is overblown. And it's overrating JVR. And there isn't any basis for stating that it would of been easy at the time, to add a player of Schenn's pedigree and value, for a low price. At the time of the trade, Schenn was a defenseman who is parts of 4 seasons had played a top role defensively, and was a 5th overall pick in the draft. His value then is quite different then it would be now.

You don't have your facts straight. In 4 seasons with the Leafs, Schenn missed 18 games, 12 of which were due to a LBI in his rookie season. So a player who played in 79, 82, and 79 games in his other 3 seasons, is not a player who was becoming a routine healthy scratch. That is just plain false. Saying that they got ripped of taken to the cleaners is overblown. And it's overrating JVR. And there isn't any basis for stating that it would of been easy at the time, to add a player of Schenn's pedigree and value, for a low price.
- MJL

His last season he was a healthy scratch for 3 games near the end of the season and had fallen out of favour with Leaf staff and management. IMO they got ripped off. Just looking at numbers and how both players are trending since deal, the Leafs made out much better on this trade. Before trade was made JVR has shown more as a player and is much more skilled at his respective position. The Flyers were loaded up front and did need D help at that time but I just felt that if they were going to deal JVR they should have had a better return.

His last season he was a healthy scratch for 3 games near the end of the season and had fallen out of favour with Leaf staff and management. IMO they got ripped off. Just looking at numbers and how both players are trending since deal, the Leafs made out much better on this trade. Before trade was made JVR has shown more as a player and is much more skilled at his respective position. The Flyers were loaded up front and did need D help at that time but I just felt that if they were going to deal JVR they should have had a better return.
- 3flyerkids

In his last season with the Leafs, the 11/12 season, Schenn was held out of one game in March, and April, the final months of the season. Right now, it looks like the Leafs have made out better. And I don't have a lot of hopes of that changing. Not because of JVR, but because it just seems like Schenn is not going to take some steps. It could change who knows, but he's been given a lot of time to show some signs. But they didn't get ripped off. Sharp for Ellison is getting ripped off.

Sharks appear to need D help, maybe something like Luke Schenn + 4th for Matt Nieto + 2nd

JVR for L Schenn is getting ripped off

Sharp for Ellison is highway robbery coupled with a brutal beating!

Flyers got ripped off big time. I hated the deal at the time and I still do. Schenn was becoming a routine healthy scratch for the Leafs. I thought Homer did a job overall during his tenure,but he truly got taken to the cleaners in this deal.
A Dman of Schenns ability would have been easy to add at a low price. JVR would have looked good with G and Jake.
- 3flyerkids

He did. Suggesting he didn't is ignoring the fact of what each player is today. Was it as bad as Sharp for Ellison turned out to be? No. But it's pretty bad when you trade a guy who became a 30 goal 1st liner for the 6th defenseman in a mediocre group.

JVR for L Schenn is getting ripped off

Sharp for Ellison is highway robbery coupled with a brutal beating!
- BiggE

Player A: 36 GP, 3G, 10A, 13Pts

Player B 66 GP, 5G, 15A 20 Pts

If we have to look back at what was going on for context, we can't call the Sharp for Ellison deal bad. Player A is Ellison with Chicago, Player B is Sharp with the Flyers. 2 more goal and 5 more assists in 20 more games.

Bullpoop you can't look back & call a bad trade a bad trade. Part of being a GM is recognizing future potential & the likelihood of reaching it. Schenn had serious impediments-1st he's not especially mobile. North south he gas ok speed, but laterally, he's subpar. Hockey sense is a big issue, as it was in Toronto.

Every GM has good and bad moves on their resume. I look at the overall body of work. I understand why the trade was made, and I'm still okay with it, even if it hasn't worked out as planned.


As far as one for one, JVR's value at the time just wasn't that high.
- MJL

I disagree that JvR's value wasn't that high at the time, at least not high enough to demand more then Luke Schenn. Speaking for myself, I knew what we were giving up. He was only three seasons in, the third season saw a couple injuries that slowed him down. He's a big kid, with great hands, an accurate shot and a smooth skater for a Power Forward. There was no reason to believe his value couldn't be high or the kid wasn't going to get better. His progress from his first season to his second showed nothing but improve. One bad season is far from the end of the world, and trading him was an overreaction.

Player A: 36 GP, 3G, 10A, 13Pts

Player B 66 GP, 5G, 15A 20 Pts

If we have to look back at what was going on for context, we can't call the Sharp for Ellison deal bad. Player A is Ellison with Chicago, Player B is Sharp with the Flyers. 2 more goal and 5 more assists in 20 more games.

Bullpoop you can't look back & call a bad trade a bad trade. Part of being a GM is recognizing future potential & the likelihood of reaching it. Schenn had serious impediments-1st he's not especially mobile. North south he gas ok speed, but laterally, he's subpar. Hockey sense is a big issue, as it was in Toronto.
- Jsaquella

Same could be said about Chris Pronger who was an elite defenceman. He was big and slow just like Schenn. If Schenn can get his Hockey IQ up he could be a more effective Dman. He still has at least 3 years before he hits his prime. What we see is likely what we get at this point but he still has time to prove us wrong.

In his last season with the Leafs, the 11/12 season, Schenn was held out of one game in March, and April, the final months of the season. Right now, it looks like the Leafs have made out better. And I don't have a lot of hopes of that changing. Not because of JVR, but because it just seems like Schenn is not going to take some steps. It could change who knows, but he's been given a lot of time to show some signs. But they didn't get ripped off. Sharp for Ellison is getting ripped off.
- MJL

Sharp for Ellison is just an all out A** kicking

My whole point is JVR would have brought a lot more to the Flyers than Luke Schenn.
If JVR can be on pace for another 30 goal season with Bozak as his centre, I am VERY confident he would produce even more with Giroux... IMO of course!
30 goal wingers are harder to come by than 5/6 Dman!

Player A: 36 GP, 3G, 10A, 13Pts

Player B 66 GP, 5G, 15A 20 Pts

If we have to look back at what was going on for context, we can't call the Sharp for Ellison deal bad. Player A is Ellison with Chicago, Player B is Sharp with the Flyers. 2 more goal and 5 more assists in 20 more games.

Bullpoop you can't look back & call a bad trade a bad trade. Part of being a GM is recognizing future potential & the likelihood of reaching it. Schenn had serious impediments-1st he's not especially mobile. North south he gas ok speed, but laterally, he's subpar. Hockey sense is a big issue, as it was in Toronto.
- Jsaquella

His hockey sense was so bad in Toronto, that he was a top minute defenseman for them, for a number of seasons.
If posters are going use hindsight to look at the Schenn deal, then it is fair to do the same with the Sharp deal.

He did. Suggesting he didn't is ignoring the fact of what each player is today. Was it as bad as Sharp for Ellison turned out to be? No. But it's pretty bad when you trade a guy who became a 30 goal 1st liner for the 6th defenseman in a mediocre group.
- Jsaquella

Is JVR going to continue to be a 30 goal player? And defense is also a far more important position then Wing. I think the Flyers lost the trade at this point. But they didn't get ripped off.

Sharp for Ellison is just an all out A** kicking

My whole point is JVR would have brought a lot more to the Flyers than Luke Schenn.
If JVR can be on pace for another 30 goal season with Bozak as his centre, I am VERY confident he would produce even more with Giroux... IMO of course!
30 goal wingers are harder to come by than 5/6 Dman!
- 3flyerkids

At the time of the trade, no I don't think JVR's value was as high as it would be now. And unfortunately, Luke Schenn's value is lower.

30 goal wingers are harder to come by then 5/6 defenseman. But at the time of the trade, that wasn't how each player was regarded.

Player A: 36 GP, 3G, 10A, 13Pts

Player B 66 GP, 5G, 15A 20 Pts

If we have to look back at what was going on for context, we can't call the Sharp for Ellison deal bad. Player A is Ellison with Chicago, Player B is Sharp with the Flyers. 2 more goal and 5 more assists in 20 more games.

Bullpoop you can't look back & call a bad trade a bad trade. Part of being a GM is recognizing future potential & the likelihood of reaching it. Schenn had serious impediments-1st he's not especially mobile. North south he gas ok speed, but laterally, he's subpar. Hockey sense is a big issue, as it was in Toronto.
- Jsaquella

I was a fan of Homer and I know w e have to move on but I just felt he really blew it on this one. Like you said " a GM's job is reconizing future potential and the likelihood of reaching it" JVR's potential seemed a lot better than Schenn's and it still is

I disagree that JvR's value wasn't that high at the time, at least not high enough to demand more then Luke Schenn. Speaking for myself, I knew what we were giving up. He was only three seasons in, the third season saw a couple injuries that slowed him down. He's a big kid, with great hands, an accurate shot and a smooth skater for a Power Forward. There was no reason to believe his value couldn't be high or the kid wasn't going to get better. His progress from his first season to his second showed nothing but improve. One bad season is far from the end of the world, and trading him was an overreaction.
- SuperSchennBros

The Flyers certainly lost patience with JVR. But at the time, he was a struggling player looking to find some consistency. In the same way that Luke Schenn was. Both players at the time of the trade, had pretty equal potential at their position. Unfortunately, potential is not always realized.

Sharp for Ellison is just an all out A** kicking

My whole point is JVR would have brought a lot more to the Flyers than Luke Schenn.
If JVR can be on pace for another 30 goal season with Bozak as his centre, I am VERY confident he would produce even more with Giroux... IMO of course!
30 goal wingers are harder to come by than 5/6 Dman!
- 3flyerkids

I think JvR could score 40 with Giroux and Voracek during a healthy season.

I think JvR could score 40 with Giroux and Voracek during a healthy season.
- SuperSchennBros

JVR already plays with a very good offensive player and playmaker.

JVR already plays with a very good offensive player and playmaker.
- MJL

Bozak is "ok", JVR would have much higher potential numbers with Giroux as Bozak is not in G's class

I think JvR could score 40 with Giroux and Voracek during a healthy season.
- SuperSchennBros

ive said it a bunch of times that i really dont think luke schenn will ever be anything special, but at the time that was a much less certain fact than it appears to be now. its not the greatest of analogies, but tyler myers has been on tougher times recently, and his asking price is still a huge premium due to the potential he still has as an asset.

and for better or worse, i think the flyers looked at a stretch they had in which JVR was out and the offense didnt really suffer so much, and felt like they could deal from an area of expendable strength to address an area of weakness that is traditionally very difficult to acquire, even if it meant taking a slight hit on the overall value.

Bozak is "ok", JVR would have much higher potential numbers with Giroux as Bozak is not in G's class
- 3flyerkids

I was referring to Phil Kessel.

ive said it a bunch of times that i really dont think luke schenn will ever be anything special, but at the time that was a much less certain fact than it appears to be now. its not the greatest of analogies, but tyler myers has been on tougher times recently, and his asking price is still a huge premium due to the potential he still has as an asset.

and for better or worse, i think the flyers looked at a stretch they had in which JVR was out and the offense didnt really suffer so much, and felt like they could deal from an area of expendable strength to address an area of weakness that is traditionally very difficult to acquire, even if it meant taking a slight hit on the overall value.
- stayinthefnnet

I think they did feel that they could deal from a position of strength to build up a weakness on the team. That's part of it. But I also think they were frustrated with JVR and lost patience.

At the time of the trade, no I don't think JVR's value was as high as it would be now. And unfortunately, Luke Schenn's value is lower.

30 goal wingers are harder to come by then 5/6 defenseman. But at the time of the trade, that wasn't how each player was regarded.
- MJL

I am no NHL GM, but at the time of the trade I saw it as a potential 30 goal plus player for maybe a 4 Dman at best! JVR did show he could play at playoff level and unfortunately did have injury issues as well.
You are right, the Flyers did loose patience with JVR and by doing that they got burned in this trade.

I think they did feel that they could deal from a position of strength to build up a weakness on the team. That's part of it. But I also think they were frustrated with JVR and lost patience.
- MJL

im glad they did haha i remember watching him during that boston series and he inspired a lot of fear.

admittedly im not sure what his contract situation is currently like, but i would love him on the pens, and would consider most assets not named maatta for him.

I was referring to Phil Kessel.
- MJL

Not much of an all round play maker. A pure sniper who can shoot and score. No question. I look at G as an all round play maker and a much better play than Kessel.

Here's my 2 cents just in case we don't already have enough opinions thrown out there..

At the time of the trade I was indifferent. I thought we traded JVR when his value was probably lower than it should have been due to the recent injuries he was dealing with. I feel like we could have got a lot more in return if we had waited a bit longer to trade him.

With that said, at the time of the trade, I think it was close to equal value for both sides when you consider you're basically trading for each players potential. I could be mistaken but at the time Schenn still had the potential to be a top pairing dman who can eat tons of minutes who is also right handed(which is sometimes overlooked but I think was a big part of it) In hindsight, we obviously lost but if each player met their potential each team would have walked away with exactly what they needed.

You obviously hate the trade now in retrospect but what really grinded my gears was when it was later reported (I forget by who) that we turned down an offer at the time with the Coyotes for JVR/Yandle straight up. Sure you lose whatever potential Schenn might have but the Flyers would have been getting exactly what they were looking for minus the right handed shot and JVR would have been shipped out west and we would only have to see him twice a year.