Pronger was not slow for his size and he possessed elite level hockey sense and skills with the puck. Schenn has neither and never did. Schenn's upside, when drafted, was Adam Foote, leadership guy and shutdown defenseman.

Pronger, form the second he was drafted, was seen as a franchise defenseman and elite player.
- Jsaquella

Yup Toronto set Schenn on the path he's on by thinking just because they selected him high that he should/could play right away.

Cap hit figured into it, too. They needed to lighten the load a bit, and I feel like Homer thought he might have overpaid JvR on that extension.

Difference between Schenn, and most other highly-picked D prospects, is that his absolute ceiling was Brooks Orpik. Even on draft day, and the talk of him being a franchise guy, nobody was under any illusions that he was going to contribute much offensively due to very obvious limitations.

Maybe in 2002, that kind of player was worth a top-six winger... at the time of the trade though, not so much.
- Tomahawk

That's a possibility, as JvR's deal was also longer than Schenn's.

The other part of your post gets back to my point about part of a GM's job being to identify not only a guy's ceiling, but his ability to reach it. JvR had show flashes of being a dominant player, but couldn't do it consistently. He was banged up a bit that last season, and struggled. But in his case it was simply a matter of getting consistent.

Schenn's case was one of getting consistent, but there were-and are-limitations that make him less likely to meet his more modest ceiling. The mobility is a big one. Schenn can get a head of steam and move decently, but he's not that agile. He gets caught flat footed or out of position and he has trouble recovering.

That wouldn't be as big an issue if he was a better positional player. But he makes poor reads and goes for a big hit and loses position and it's hard for him to recover. If he keeps his game simple, doesn't try to do too much and simply let's the game come to him, he's solid.

Right now, Schenn is the 6th guy on a mediocre defense, and JvR has back to back big seasons playing with Kessel & Tyler Bozak. Kessel is an elite player, but Bozak is a 2nd liner. Imagine what JvR would be doing with two elite guys like Giroux and Voracek

Yup Toronto set Schenn on the path he's on by thinking just because they selected him high that he should/could play right away.
- ob18

They did him no favors. He was big enough, strong enough and nasty enough to be a stud, shut down defenseman in the WHL. He wasn't bigger, stronger and nastier than everyone in the NHL at age 18. He learned bad habits and never really learned how to be a better positional defender and to better read the play in front of him.

gonna have to disagree here
- -davies-

What I meant was with the advent of social media it's now 100 times worse than it ever was.

That's a possibility, as JvR's deal was also longer than Schenn's.

The other part of your post gets back to my point about part of a GM's job being to identify not only a guy's ceiling, but his ability to reach it. JvR had show flashes of being a dominant player, but couldn't do it consistently. He was banged up a bit that last season, and struggled. But in his case it was simply a matter of getting consistent.

Schenn's case was one of getting consistent, but there were-and are-limitations that make him less likely to meet his more modest ceiling. The mobility is a big one. Schenn can get a head of steam and move decently, but he's not that agile. He gets caught flat footed or out of position and he has trouble recovering.

That wouldn't be as big an issue if he was a better positional player. But he makes poor reads and goes for a big hit and loses position and it's hard for him to recover. If he keeps his game simple, doesn't try to do too much and simply let's the game come to him, he's solid.

Right now, Schenn is the 6th guy on a mediocre defense, and JvR has back to back big seasons playing with Kessel & Tyler Bozak. Kessel is an elite player, but Bozak is a 2nd liner. Imagine what JvR would be doing with two elite guys like Giroux and Voracek
- Jsaquella

Luke Schenn had also showed flashes of being a top defenseman in his time with Toronto. He had seasons, especially as a 19 year old playing over 20 minutes a game. Both players were in the same position at the time of the trade, of having inconsistencies in their game.
I also disagree with terming JVR's seasons as big seasons. I think many overrate him as a player. He's a good goal scorer. And I don't think JVR's point totals would be much different then it is in Toronto. And I think it's premature to label Voracek elite at this point. He may certainly be heading that way. But he has to do it all season to reach that status.

They did him no favors. He was big enough, strong enough and nasty enough to be a stud, shut down defenseman in the WHL. He wasn't bigger, stronger and nastier than everyone in the NHL at age 18. He learned bad habits and never really learned how to be a better positional defender and to better read the play in front of him.
- Jsaquella

Yup he should only be in his 2nd or 3rd year not his 6th

Yup he should only be in his 2nd or 3rd year not his 6th
- ob18

He's in his 7th season.

He's in his 7th season.
- Jsaquella

I didn't feel like looking it up, I sit corrected.

I didn't feel like looking it up, I sit corrected.
- ob18

It's ok. I'm watching Top Gun at work and eating "lunch"

Yup he should only be in his 2nd or 3rd year not his 6th
- ob18

If we view it that way, does that mean that there is still time and we should be more patient with Luke Schenn? Because honestly, I'm not feeling that way these days.

If we view it that way, does that mean that there is still time and we should be more patient with Luke Schenn? Because honestly, I'm not feeling that way these days.
- MJL

No, I'd say he is what he is at this point and be happy we have as many D prospects as we do developing for the future.

No, I'd say he is what he is at this point and be happy we have as many D prospects as we do developing for the future.
- ob18

Speaking of which, Gostisbehere has been officially sent back to the Phantoms

Speaking of which, Gostisbehere has been officially sent back to the Phantoms
- Jsaquella

Good, lets get the kid back with serious ice time & an eye on the future.

No, I'd say he is what he is at this point and be happy we have as many D prospects as we do developing for the future.
- ob18

are any of the Flyers D prospects a right handed shot?

Val-dOr is up 1 - 0........... Aubé-Kubel with an assist

No, I'd say he is what he is at this point and be happy we have as many D prospects as we do developing for the future.
- ob18

I lean towards that also. I just feel that he is a decent defensive defenseman. Other think he stinks.

are any of the Flyers D prospects a right handed shot?
- Marc D

Alt, Friedman, & Willcox

Speaking of which, Gostisbehere has been officially sent back to the Phantoms
- Jsaquella

That happened yesterday at 5:00PM

That happened yesterday at 5:00PM
- MJL

Specifics weren't needed, the main point was made. Thanks.

are any of the Flyers D prospects a right handed shot?
- Marc D

Sanheim, IIRC and Alt for sure
edit: Sanheim's a lefty

Alt, Friedman, & Willcox
- ob18

so the big four are all lefties

Specifics weren't needed, the main point was made. Thanks.
- ob18

so the big four are all lefties
- Marc D

Yup

Good, lets get the kid back with serious ice time & an eye on the future.
- ob18

Could have done it yesterday and maybe he would have been able to play tonight

so the big four are all lefties
- Marc D

Yes, but who knows maybe they continue adding to the stable for d-men...........even though adding other positions would be nice.