That's the thing, I'm watching the games & looking at the numbers. I don't see this good play from Rinaldo or VandeVelde, either at 5 on 5 or on the PK. I see poor positional play, I see them consistently hemmed in their own end. I don't see especially strong play away from the puck.

The stats bear that out. They have been ineffective.

Now before somebody chimes in and brings up Akeson, I am not saying Akeson has been any better. The difference is, that Rinaldo and VandeVelde have been ineffective in roles that are suited for their skill sets. Akeson has been asked to play a role that is not well suited to his strengths as a player.

It's like taking 2 carpenters and an IT guy and telling them to frame a house. I'm going to expect the carpenters to do a better job than the IT guy. The trouble is, the carpenters in this case haven't done a much better job than the geek. Sure, it's a little bit better, but it's hardly a well done job.
- Jsaquella

Both have been better then Akeson has. And that's a poor analogy. You have people from two different professions. That is not the case here. They are all hockey players. They are all either carpenters, or IT guys. That would be a correct analogy. Every player, whether they are a first line player, or a 4th line player is expected to play hard and compete away from the puck. No excuses. But there seems to be excuses for Akeson, that he can't play well away from the puck, so he gets a pass. It's the NHL, he's not going to get a pass. His offensive skill alone is not enough. If he doesn't compete away from the puck, he doesn't have much of an NHL future. He did it last year in the playoffs, what's the problem now?

Schultz gets 0:45 seconds a game on the PP yet he has never been an offensive player. To me, that's how it should be earned: whether or not you fit the role. Akeson fits the PP role better than a handful of players on the team including Schultz. "Rewarding" a player with a role that he's not suited for seems odd to me and flawed.

IMO, it's shouldn't be about earning it in terms of special teams if you have a specific skill-set that would apply and to me Akeson does. Akeson should have to earn playing in the top 9 at even strength though unless there's a slew of injuries, etc.
- NickTheKid87

Akeson first has to earn regular playing time. No team is going to practice with him on the 2nd unit if he isn't going to be a regular in the linuep. That is where hes first has to start.

Exactly. I don't see why Akeson deserves anymore then he is getting. Also this notion that Rinaldo and VDV do nothing. They do their job. They get in on the forecheck, provdie solid energy and help take some time of PK for other guys.
- J35Bacher

Their job is to concede lots of goals and shots in limited minutes? Cause that's all they've done on the 4th line apart from one good pass by VdV to Grossmann.

OK,

If I have two short order cooks and a drive in cashier from McDonald's, I expect the fry cooks to be able to make a tastier hamburger than the cashier. The trouble is, while the cashier's burger isn't very good, the fry cooks made a dry, overcooked burger. And gave me American when I ordered Swiss
- Jsaquella

Now I have to get a McDouble for lunch... gee thanks.

Schultz gets 0:45 seconds a game on the PP yet he has never been an offensive player. To me, that's how it should be earned: whether or not you fit the role. Akeson fits the PP role better than a handful of players on the team including Schultz. "Rewarding" a player with a role that he's not suited for seems odd to me and flawed.

IMO, it's shouldn't be about earning it in terms of special teams if you have a specific skill-set that would apply and to me Akeson does. Akeson should have to earn playing in the top 9 at even strength though unless there's a slew of injuries, etc.
- NickTheKid87

You dare question the sanity of this genious?

That's the thing, I'm watching the games & looking at the numbers. I don't see this good play from Rinaldo or VandeVelde, either at 5 on 5 or on the PK. I see poor positional play, I see them consistently hemmed in their own end. I don't see especially strong play away from the puck.

The stats bear that out. They have been ineffective.

Now before somebody chimes in and brings up Akeson, I am not saying Akeson has been any better. The difference is, that Rinaldo and VandeVelde have been ineffective in roles that are suited for their skill sets. Akeson has been asked to play a role that is not well suited to his strengths as a player.

It's like taking 2 carpenters and an IT guy and telling them to frame a house. I'm going to expect the carpenters to do a better job than the IT guy. The trouble is, the carpenters in this case haven't done a much better job than the geek. Sure, it's a little bit better, but it's hardly a well done job.
- Jsaquella

Exactly

You don't take a skill player, stick him on the 4th line with grinders, then sit him because he doesn't excel in that role. I'll go back to Pelle Eklund's rookie year for an example. At ES, they usually used him as a 4th line center often between guys like Dave Brown and Lindsay Carson. However Mike Keenan, unlike Berube, had enough sense to put him on the top pp unit where he fit right in and piled up assists.

Now before someone jumps up and screams Akeson is no Eklund, yeah I get that. However, his skill set is exactly what the 2nd pp unit could use. Some may say that Rinaldo hustles and shows heart, but every time I see him he is usually part of a line that his pinned in the Flyers D zone for their entire shift. Swapping Akeson in for Rinaldo wouldn't hurt the team a bit at ES or on the PK and will help the powerplay. It should be a no brainer.

The one good thing the Rinaldo/VDV/Akeson situation has done this year is take the heat off Umberger and LeCavalier.

If that was Craig's plan all along. Were all fools.

Already discussed that.
- MJL

So what you are saying is that those things only apply to certain players?

Now I have to get a McDouble for lunch... gee thanks.
- Tomahawk

Cyanide would be quicker. And less painful

Their job is to concede lots of goals and shots in limited minutes? Cause that's all they've done on the 4th line apart from one good pass by VdV to Grossmann.
- Feanor

yes get it through your thick skull

The one good thing the Rinaldo/VDV/Akeson situation has done this year is take the heat off Umberger and LeCavalier.

If that was Craig's plan all along. Were all fools.
- flyer_nutter

Akeson first has to earn regular playing time. No team is going to practice with him on the 2nd unit if he isn't going to be a regular in the linuep. That is where hes first has to start.
- J35Bacher

That's a good point but in terms of practicing, they can be flexible and try out different units. He's played 8 of 11 games this season though so it's not like he's been scratched all that often. They plugged Ghost in right away and they've juggled the 2nd unit personnel during games in the past.

Both have been better then Akeson has. And that's a poor analogy. You have people from two different professions. That is not the case here. They are all hockey players. They are all either carpenters, or IT guys. That would be a correct analogy. Every player, whether they are a first line player, or a 4th line player is expected to play hard and compete away from the puck. No excuses. But there seems to be excuses for Akeson, that he can't play well away from the puck, so he gets a pass. It's the NHL, he's not going to get a pass. His offensive skill alone is not enough. If he doesn't compete away from the puck, he doesn't have much of an NHL future. He did it last year in the playoffs, what's the problem now?
- MJL

Rinaldo has not been better than Akeson. The team concedes almost twice as many goals per 20 minutes with Rinaldo on the ice than with Akeson. He has also taken a bunch of penalties.

Schultz gets 0:45 seconds a game on the PP yet he has never been an offensive player. To me, that's how it should be earned: whether or not you fit the role. Akeson fits the PP role better than a handful of players on the team including Schultz. "Rewarding" a player with a role that he's not suited for seems odd to me and flawed.

IMO, it's shouldn't be about earning it in terms of special teams if you have a specific skill-set that would apply and to me Akeson does. Akeson should have to earn playing in the top 9 at even strength though unless there's a slew of injuries, etc.
- NickTheKid87

I don't think Akeson is a better fit then any of the other players on the 2nd unit. Schultz won't be on the PP when MacDonald returns. And Akeson is not a fit on the point. The problem is that the 2nd unit isn't producing. A coach is not going to play a player on the PP, especially a rookie, if he's not playing well away from the puck. This is the situation that Akeson is in. Fair or unfair.

Rinaldo has not been better than Akeson. The team concedes almost twice as many goals per 20 minutes with Rinaldo on the ice than with Akeson. He has also taken a bunch of penalties.
- Feanor

THIS

Exactly

You don't take a skill player, stick him on the 4th line with grinders, then sit him because he doesn't excel in that role. I'll go back to Pelle Eklund's rookie year for an example. At ES, they usually used him as a 4th line center often between guys like Dave Brown and Lindsay Carson. However Mike Keenan, unlike Berube, had enough sense to put him on the top pp unit where he fit right in and piled up assists.

Now before someone jumps up and screams Akeson is no Eklund, yeah I get that. However, his skill set is exactly what the 2nd pp unit could use. Some may say that Rinaldo hustles and shows heart, but every time I see him he is usually part of a line that his pinned in the Flyers D zone for their entire shift. Swapping Akeson in for Rinaldo wouldn't hurt the team a bit at ES or on the PK and will help the powerplay. It should be a no brainer.
- BiggE

Yes, to point out Akeson's skill set is not exactly suited to the role he's being asked to play is making excuses.

Ignoring that Rinaldo and vandeVelde have been largely ineffective in roles well suited to their skill sets is an acceptable argument.

Rinaldo has not been better than Akeson. The team concedes almost twice as many goals per 20 minutes with Rinaldo on the ice than with Akeson. He has also taken a bunch of penalties.
- Feanor

It's a team game, derp.

Rinaldo has not been better than Akeson. The team concedes almost twice as many goals per 20 minutes with Rinaldo on the ice than with Akeson. He has also taken a bunch of penalties.
- Feanor

The key is team. That is a team stat, not an individual player stat. There are 4 other skaters on the ice with Rinaldo when he is out there. And I'm quite sure that some of that data is compiled when Akeson and Rinaldo are on the ice together. That stat cannot be used to evaluate an individual player.

Yes, to point out Akeson's skill set is not exactly suited to the role he's being asked to play is making excuses.

Ignoring that Rinaldo and vandeVelde have been largely ineffective in roles well suited to their skill sets is an acceptable argument.
- Jsaquella

Yup
And that is why I've joined your Ignore MJL Club.

And, MJL, before you message me to ask if this is the way it's going to be, let me save you some time. THIS IS THE WAY ITS GOING TO BE!!

God, the ignore button cannot come soon enough!

I don't think Akeson is a better fit then any of the other players on the 2nd unit. Schultz won't be on the PP when MacDonald returns. And Akeson is not a fit on the point. The problem is that the 2nd unit isn't producing. A coach is not going to play a player on the PP, especially a rookie, if he's not playing well away from the puck. This is the situation that Akeson is in. Fair or unfair.
- MJL

When everyone is healthy, I agree, Akeson shouldn't be on the PP regularly. I'm not sure he should even be in the NHL. But people are hurt and the 2nd unit has been ineffective so I think he's a better option than most. Injuries make him an option more so than his actual skill level.

Rinaldo has not been better than Akeson. The team concedes almost twice as many goals per 20 minutes with Rinaldo on the ice than with Akeson. He has also taken a bunch of penalties.
- Feanor

Well, to be fairer, he has 10 pim (5 minors) in 10 games. And at least 3 of those calls have been utter bullpoop.

I don't think Akeson is a better fit then any of the other players on the 2nd unit. Schultz won't be on the PP when MacDonald returns. And Akeson is not a fit on the point. The problem is that the 2nd unit isn't producing. A coach is not going to play a player on the PP, especially a rookie, if he's not playing well away from the puck. This is the situation that Akeson is in. Fair or unfair.
- MJL

I cant resist.

Nothing personal but imo Rinaldo and Jean Claude Van Damme are piece of poop NHL players. We know damn well what we are getting and at best its a warm body. They should be out on the streets, instead of Berube's sheets.

Akeson is a young kid that on a team starved for actual skill is being targeted because he doesn't play completely D first or chase for a big hit. The bigger issue is that in Akeson you have room to grow and develop a player that can actually contribute something worthwhile. He isn't going to get that with his ass hairs glued to the press box.


What team other than the flyers right now would employ Rinaldo and VDV?

/end rant

Akeson first has to earn regular playing time. No team is going to practice with him on the 2nd unit if he isn't going to be a regular in the linuep. That is where hes first has to start.
- J35Bacher

OK, then why don't Rinaldo and VandeVelde have to "earn" regular playing time?

Why is it, that pointing out Akeson hasn't played well in a role he's poorly suited for, is making excuses for Akeson?

Conversely, why is it acceptable to ignore that Rinaldo & VandeVelde, while better suited to the roles that they are being asked to play, are only marginally better than Akeson and have been mostly ineffective?

You want to say Akeson has to earn time by playing better, yet excuse the ineffective play of Rinaldo and VandeVelde. Isn't that a double standard?

Yes, to point out Akeson's skill set is not exactly suited to the role he's being asked to play is making excuses.

Ignoring that Rinaldo and vandeVelde have been largely ineffective in roles well suited to their skill sets is an acceptable argument.
- Jsaquella

It absolutely is an excuse. It's as if Akeson is playing on the 4th line, so therefore he can't win a puck battle, can't get in on the forecheck, and can't pressure the puck. When he gets easily knocked off the puck, which happens frequently. That is because he is not a 4th line player, and his skill set is not suited for it. Rather then he is simply not competitive. Because a puck battle playing on the 2nd line, is different from a puck battle on the 4th line.

Rinaldo and Vandevelde have been more effective then Akeson. Which is why they're playing, and Akeson isn't currently.

akeson, rinaldo, vv all suck...

There someone said it