So much splitting hairs and a sense that one thing is worse than another.

It has to come to a point where there is some sort of formula that is used to determine the penalty.

I kind of feel the Ference hit was more premeditated than the Burrows hit, but it is just hard to quantify or compare. But having past suspensions seemed to have no bearing on the suspension. And why should it? Should he know better? Did it happen so quick that he didn't have the time to consider all options? He would take it back if he could? He is not that type of player. Shouldn't look at his past.


There has to be a better way to determine the suspension but at least with the leagues little explanations on many of the suspensions there is some insight into the process.
- hillbillydeluxe

What would fix things is what I've been saying all along. Take out subjectivity in these decisions, negotiate with the PA a standardized system of discipline where each offense has a minimum number of games and for each aggregating factor, more games are added. So let's say hits to the head, it starts at 1 game, if he leaves his feet that's another game, if his PPA is the head, another game and so on. You also take into account injury, so if the player returns to the game, it's not a factor, if he's day-to-day that's a certain number of games, if he's on the DL, that's 10+ depending on the severity of the injury. Do that and all these dirty plays will quickly disappear.

I would be okay with being sellers if we got top shelf market value for whoever we were selling. Hoping that young guys will be ready next year probably isn't the wisest way to go about things. If someone is definitely ready though then I think it is much more likely Benning will make some room if the price is right
- bezz44

That sounds good.

I'd like to see picks.

But I don't see tanking as an option for this management group.

Just looking at pending ufa's, I can see Matthias being moved and maybe Sestito if there is any demand, but would like to see Richardson and Dorsett resigned.

Higgins is one of the few forwards that is proven 15+ goals and plays in just about any situation. So that leaves Hansen and Burrows as the other trade options.

On defense, I don't covet anyone above the other in the top 4, maybe Hamhuis is the one I'd keep above all the others but so much depends on what is coming back. Goalies- trade Lack or one from the farm.

What would fix things is what I've been saying all along. Take out subjectivity in these decisions, negotiate with the PA a standardized system of discipline where each offense has a minimum number of games and for each aggregating factor, more games are added. So let's say hits to the head, it starts at 1 game, if he leaves his feet that's another game, if his PPA is the head, another game and so on. You also take into account injury, so if the player returns to the game, it's not a factor, if he's day-to-day that's a certain number of games, if he's on the DL, that's 10+ depending on the severity of the injury. Do that and all these dirty plays will quickly disappear.
- DariusKnight

You might be onto something.

That sounds better than what we have now.

What would fix things is what I've been saying all along. Take out subjectivity in these decisions, negotiate with the PA a standardized system of discipline where each offense has a minimum number of games and for each aggregating factor, more games are added. So let's say hits to the head, it starts at 1 game, if he leaves his feet that's another game, if his PPA is the head, another game and so on. You also take into account injury, so if the player returns to the game, it's not a factor, if he's day-to-day that's a certain number of games, if he's on the DL, that's 10+ depending on the severity of the injury. Do that and all these dirty plays will quickly disappear.
- DariusKnight

I wonder what going so far as calling all hits to the head 5 game offenses would do

That sounds good.

I'd like to see picks.

But I don't see tanking as an option for this management group.

Just looking at pending ufa's, I can see Matthias being moved and maybe Sestito if there is any demand, but would like to see Richardson and Dorsett resigned.

Higgins is one of the few forwards that is proven 15+ goals and plays in just about any situation. So that leaves Hansen and Burrows as the other trade options.

On defense, I don't covet anyone above the other in the top 4, maybe Hamhuis is the one I'd keep above all the others but so much depends on what is coming back. Goalies- trade Lack or one from the farm.
- hillbillydeluxe

I definitely think if we are selling it will be small pieces like Matthias, Hansen, Lack. Not really huge value there but could get a couple of extra picks which is always nice.

Tony Gallagher can be measurably confirmed as the greatest hockey mind alive. Measure the dust content and you will find a direct correlation with hockey wisdom
- bezz44

This word has no reason to be connected to Tony Gallagher

Ehhhhh... Tell that to my dad, he is the same generation as you guys
I actually have a sneaking suspicion one of his friends is Vantel. Currently residing in the Philippines with his 25 y/o wife
- bezz44

Very smart man I see

This word has no reason to be connected to Tony Gallagher
- A_SteamingLombardi

well undeath is a form of life no? is he a lich or a zombie? i've yet to hear someone ask him during an interview

Very smart man I see
- VANTEL

not quite so much as you, he took her extended family on vacation, all 30 of them...

I wonder what going so far as calling all hits to the head 5 game offenses would do
- bezz44

Who decides that it was considered a hit to the head? Ref on the ice ? War room?

Is Duncan Keith's elbow on Daniel really the same severity of Hansen's on Hossa?

I don't think it's fair to label all head-shots the same as some come from legitimate hockey plays gone wrong in a fraction of a second. This process will always need to account for the different variables that come into play. The league has tried to present what the process looks like and how it comes to its conclusions but still seems to plagued by inconsistencies.

Honestly I think the NHL's biggest weakness is its inconsistency on rules whether it is goals kicked in, suspensions, penalty calls game to game or whatever. I know most sports have to deal with this but I feel like the NHL does an especially poor job.

This season I feel like they have made strides in trying to get the right call and refs seem to get together to talk about it or review video more which is great, although like some have said they really need the ref cam on all games.

I definitely think if we are selling it will be small pieces like Matthias, Hansen, Lack. Not really huge value there but could get a couple of extra picks which is always nice.
- bezz44

Where does Burrows fit next year. I don't think he will have a banner year.

not quite so much as you, he took her extended family on vacation, all 30 of them...
- bezz44

Holy crap

Who decides that it was considered a hit to the head? Ref on the ice ? War room?

Is Duncan Keith's elbow on Daniel really the same severity of Hansen's on Hossa?

I don't think it's fair to label all head-shots the same as some come from legitimate hockey plays gone wrong in a fraction of a second. This process will always need to account for the different variables that come into play. The league has tried to present what the process looks like and how it comes to its conclusions but still seems to plagued by inconsistencies.

Honestly I think the NHL's biggest weakness is its inconsistency on rules whether it is goals kicked in, suspensions, penalty calls game to game or whatever. I know most sports have to deal with this but I feel like the NHL does an especially poor job.

This season I feel like they have made strides in trying to get the right call and refs seem to get together to talk about it or review video more which is great, although like some have said they really need the ref cam on all games.
- belcherbd

I suppose therein lies the crux of the issue, it is impossible to come up with an acceptable solution through policy when the issue is a result of interpreting the hit itself. I don't know how that can be improved on if there is nothing wrong with the personnel employed by Player Safety. Perhaps an audit would be in order?
Edit: that is where my suggestion came from, I think simplifying the interpretation process, though less specific to each situation, at least punishes head shots in a way that is consistent and difficult to argue with

Who decides that it was considered a hit to the head? Ref on the ice ? War room?

Is Duncan Keith's elbow on Daniel really the same severity of Hansen's on Hossa?

I don't think it's fair to label all head-shots the same as some come from legitimate hockey plays gone wrong in a fraction of a second. This process will always need to account for the different variables that come into play. The league has tried to present what the process looks like and how it comes to its conclusions but still seems to plagued by inconsistencies.

Honestly I think the NHL's biggest weakness is its inconsistency on rules whether it is goals kicked in, suspensions, penalty calls game to game or whatever. I know most sports have to deal with this but I feel like the NHL does an especially poor job.

This season I feel like they have made strides in trying to get the right call and refs seem to get together to talk about it or review video more which is great, although like some have said they really need the ref cam on all games.
- belcherbd

You would find players leading with their head, same as you have now players turning in towards the boards for boarding

Where does Burrows fit next year. I don't think he will have a banner year.
- VANTEL

Obviously we will have to wait and see how he does this year. If he puts up 40+ points I think we'd find a team willing to trade for him, and would be wise to do so, as long as no salary is retained

For those in the pool, please check out the message board.
- Nucker101

Why

Who decides that it was considered a hit to the head? Ref on the ice ? War room?

Is Duncan Keith's elbow on Daniel really the same severity of Hansen's on Hossa?

I don't think it's fair to label all head-shots the same as some come from legitimate hockey plays gone wrong in a fraction of a second. This process will always need to account for the different variables that come into play. The league has tried to present what the process looks like and how it comes to its conclusions but still seems to plagued by inconsistencies.

Honestly I think the NHL's biggest weakness is its inconsistency on rules whether it is goals kicked in, suspensions, penalty calls game to game or whatever. I know most sports have to deal with this but I feel like the NHL does an especially poor job.

This season I feel like they have made strides in trying to get the right call and refs seem to get together to talk about it or review video more which is great, although like some have said they really need the ref cam on all games.
- belcherbd

No, there has to be a clear line drawn and no exceptions somewhere. The reason for the inconsistencies you mention are because the calls are all subjective and up to a person. Take the subjectivity out of it, forget trying to figure out if it's a hockey play gone bad or a straight up head shot and you get this out of the game. Make a standardized system of penalties for reviewable offenses and be more like the NFL. To me, any hit above the shoulders is instant suspension, just like any hit below the hips should be a suspension. Accidents happen, but if you make it so that you know you'll be getting suspended even if it's an accident, there will be a lot less accidents.

Why
- VANTEL

Wanna get everyone's opinions on bring back the veto rule, so I can decide what to do myself...

No, there has to be a clear line drawn and no exceptions somewhere. The reason for the inconsistencies you mention are because the calls are all subjective and up to a person. Take the subjectivity out of it, forget trying to figure out if it's a hockey play gone bad or a straight up head shot and you get this out of the game. Make a standardized system of penalties for reviewable offenses and be more like the NFL. To me, any hit above the shoulders is instant suspension, just like any hit below the hips should be a suspension. Accidents happen, but if you make it so that you know you'll be getting suspended even if it's an accident, there will be a lot less accidents.
- DariusKnight

I agree with this. Players would be more inclined to be careful if they think there is a chance that they may enter a situation where they are at risk of suspension.

Wanna get everyone's opinions on bring back the veto rule, so I can decide what to do myself...
- Nucker101

So far it seems like SMP and Scooby are in favour, haven't seen anyone else with that opinion. Fosco also mentioned possibly implementing a penalty for not making 3 starts/week

Wanna get everyone's opinions on bring back the veto rule, so I can decide what to do myself...
- Nucker101

I don't veto unless it is obvious tanking or cheating

I don't veto unless it is obvious tanking or cheating
- VANTEL

Exactly. I don't think that's an issue.

So far it seems like SMP and Scooby are in favour, haven't seen anyone else with that opinion. Fosco also mentioned possibly implementing a penalty for not making 3 starts/week
- bezz44

Miss season rules are tough, but if everyone is in favour of it thats cool. He mentioned it for failing to meet the minimum for consecutive weeks which makes sense.

I suppose therein lies the crux of the issue, it is impossible to come up with an acceptable solution through policy when the issue is a result of interpreting the hit itself. I don't know how that can be improved on if there is nothing wrong with the personnel employed by Player Safety. Perhaps an audit would be in order?
Edit: that is where my suggestion came from, I think simplifying the interpretation process, though less specific to each situation, at least punishes head shots in a way that is consistent and difficult to argue with
- bezz44

It might not be the most popular opinion but I think getting ex players/refs/mgmt out of the process would be a start. I don't care what anyone says, anyone who has played or been involved in the league is biased and is going to take their experiences in the game into a decision.

I would rather see someone who has never played hockey ( at least at the NHL level) come in take over the process, I also would support harsher penalties for diving, spearing (or other stick infractions like Lucic's last year) and other unsportsmanlike calls (biting, hair pulling, water bottles etc.). I think most people can understand that a hit can cross the line when you are playing the fastest game on earth and I don't think "respect" is the issue with those hits.

I think "respect for the players" comes in more with the unsportsmanlike poop that could easily be punished more severely, getting that out of the game would make the game safer IMO and the players would respect each other more.

Miss season rules are tough, but if everyone is in favour of it thats cool. He mentioned it for failing to meet the minimum for consecutive weeks which makes sense.
- Nucker101

Yea consecutive weeks or possibly if you aren't getting at least 2 starts. Goalies get injured and not everyone has the depth to hit the 3 starts if their best goalie goes down