He is definitely quicker than he was last year after the back injury.
- Feanor

I'd hope so, but it might not be enough, from what i saw

And Bellamare as well. I understand wanting to get out from underneath Hartnell's contract, but taking back Umberger's corpse really hurts short term. Lecavalier and Umberger are really going to be black holes for the forseeable future. Sucks. That 8 million in cap space could sure come in handy.
- PLindbergh31

They just have a lot of money tied up in guys who aren't the ones carrying the team.

Amac 5M
VL 4.5M
Umberger 4.6M
Grossmann 3.5M
L Schenn 3.6M

Thats a total of $21M tied up in 5 players who are not contributing a ton to this team. All of them are signed through next year too.

Raffl-G-Jake
Schenn-Couts-Read
Akeson-PEB-Simmonds
Rinaldo-???-???

Coburn-MDZ
Streit-Schultz
???-???

With $21M to spend on upgrading the D and filling out the 4th line. Even if you throw Hartnell on to the team, they would still have $16.5M and 1 less forward spot to fill.

Gonna love having that extra cap space in years 4-5 after Jake cashes in big.
- Tomahawk

Jake, Raffl, Couturier and Schenn all cash in in 2016. Umberger is still on the books for the 2016-17 season. Even if they buy him out that summer, he will still count $1.5M against the cap for two years after. In that case, they will have traded Hartnell for Umberger and will save $3M for two years. Was it really worth it?

Edit: I forgot to include Coburn in this as well. He will be a FA in 2016 as well.

They just have a lot of money tied up in guys who aren't the ones carrying the team.

Amac 5M
VL 4.5M
Umberger 4.6M
Grossmann 3.5M
L Schenn 3.6M

fill.
- PhillySportsGuy

I cannot see Umberger on the team next year at that cap hit. Just cannot see it, if MDZ continues to play like this and is re-signed

Bottom line: Unless the cap goes up by a comparable amount, one of those salary slots has to get vacated for Del Zotto, if he is re-signed at the value he is playing like currently

Jake, Raffl, Couturier and Schenn all cash in in 2016. Umberger is still on the books for the 2016-17 season. Even if they buy him out that summer, he will still count $1.5M against the cap for two years after. In that case, they will have traded Hartnell for Umberger and will save $3M for two years. Was it really worth it?
- PhillySportsGuy

I think it was, because the money issue is the same. You still need cash/space to pay a defenseman who wasn't on the roster, and you would need that player before Ghost, Morin Hagg and Sanheim might be ready

That was always the thing about Timonen coming back this year. They needed another guy for next year, too, because the four young defenders still might not be ready for full-time duty

Jake, Raffl, Couturier and Schenn all cash in in 2016. Umberger is still on the books for the 2016-17 season. Even if they buy him out that summer, he will still count $1.5M against the cap for two years after. In that case, they will have traded Hartnell for Umberger and will save $3M for two years. Was it really worth it?
- PhillySportsGuy

I dunno... it's so far out, hard to say.

I personally don't miss Hartsy at all... since it means a clear path to L1 for Raffl/Simmer/Schenn/etc.

I dunno... it's so far out, hard to say.

I personally don't miss Hartsy at all... since it means a clear path to L1 for Raffl/Simmer/Schenn/etc.
- Tomahawk

Yeah the improved 5 on 5 play and less penalties even out the Hartnell deal for me. Hartnell has 10 points but only 1 goal.

Umberger should be the 4th line center. But Bellemare has really played great at Center. I thought for sure he would be a winger by now.

I dunno... it's so far out, hard to say.

I personally don't miss Hartsy at all... since it means a clear path to L1 for Raffl/Simmer/Schenn/etc.
- Tomahawk

Even more important is they don't miss Hartnell. Fewer penalties, goals are coming.

Hartnell wasn't a bad player, and he had some great seasons and playoff runs. He was a very good Flyer.

But they have some tricky little salary obligations that meant that the length of Hartnell's deal was an issue -- Umberger's net neutral, at best. But the fact that deal is shorter does matter a lot

I think it was, because the money issue is the same. You still need cash/space to pay a defenseman who wasn't on the roster, and you would need that player before Ghost, Morin Hagg and Sanheim might be ready

That was always the thing about Timonen coming back this year. They needed another guy for next year, too, because the four young defenders still might not be ready for full-time duty
- AllInForFlyers

I think they move Grossmann or Schenn this offseason and go with another Schultz type or Moran if he is ready for 2015-2016. You would save a few million either way. I believe Grossmann and Schenn to be the easiest to replace in terms of ability.

MDZ is playing his way to a contract extension.

I dunno... it's so far out, hard to say.

I personally don't miss Hartsy at all... since it means a clear path to L1 for Raffl/Simmer/Schenn/etc.
- Tomahawk

I miss him a little because he would provide the team with a competent, top 6 LW. Getting Umberger provides the team with two 5v5 anchors.

From a financial perspective it just never made sense to me. The heavy hitters are due for their payout before Umberger's deal expires. I feel he's less movable than Hartnell too.

They just have a lot of money tied up in guys who aren't the ones carrying the team.

Amac 5M
VL 4.5M
Umberger 4.6M
Grossmann 3.5M
L Schenn 3.6M

Thats a total of $21M tied up in 5 players who are not contributing a ton to this team. All of them are signed through next year too.

Raffl-G-Jake
Schenn-Couts-Read
Akeson-PEB-Simmonds
Rinaldo-???-???

Coburn-MDZ
Streit-Schultz
???-???

With $21M to spend on upgrading the D and filling out the 4th line. Even if you throw Hartnell on to the team, they would still have $16.5M and 1 less forward spot to fill.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think AMac is more or less worth his cap hit and maybe Grossmann too but the other three are taking up way more space than they're worth. Of course, the reason for the lengths of their contracts was so the cap hit could be lower, ironically. Schenn was paid in part due to potential. I don't expect Grossmann or Schenn to be back next year or the year after. As for the other two, it might come to eating half their hit in a trade or dealing with it. I'm not sold on Vinny being totally done yet either.

Grossmann or LSchenn?

The worst sequence of play last night happened at the start of the 2nd where the team couldn't clear the puck to save their lives, and Giroux made an absolutely appalling giveaway. Didn't involve Luke Schenn but of course he's still the target on here.
- Feanor

I agree about being a target. But Schenn did flub a couple of pucks last night. That's going to happen occasionally.

They just have a lot of money tied up in guys who aren't the ones carrying the team.

Amac 5M
VL 4.5M
Umberger 4.6M
Grossmann 3.5M
L Schenn 3.6M

Thats a total of $21M tied up in 5 players who are not contributing a ton to this team. All of them are signed through next year too.
- PhillySportsGuy

The preconceived notions and biases against MacDonald continue to amaze me. Before MacDonald got injured, he was this team's best defenseman. Playing top minutes in all situations, and playing well and holding his own on a team that at the time was playing very poorly as a team defensively overall. And when he comes back, he's going to continue to be a key player on this team. Grossmann is an important player, because you need that physical presence, shotblocking, and defense, both at ES and on the PK.

I miss him a little because he would provide the team with a competent, top 6 LW. Getting Umberger provides the team with two 5v5 anchors.

From a financial perspective it just never made sense to me. The heavy hitters are due for their payout before Umberger's deal expires. I feel he's less movable than Hartnell too.
- PhillySportsGuy

He's got 10pts, but only 1G, 21PIMs. CF% barely above 50% despite 60%+ O-ZS and the best teammates that team has to offer. Ugly -7, although it's probably mostly driven by poor SV% behind him.

I think his days as a top-6 winger are near over. Just a matter of time now.

I think they move Grossmann or Schenn this offseason and go with another Schultz type or Moran if he is ready for 2015-2016. You would save a few million either way. I believe Grossmann and Schenn to be the easiest to replace in terms of ability.

MDZ is playing his way to a contract extension.
- mickel25

unless the Oilers make an offer for Coburn that Hexy cant refuse

The preconceived notions and biases against MacDonald continue to amaze me.
- MJL

Same here.. He isn't Lidstrom 2.0... but he's been pretty solid IMO. I don't understand why people rip on him so hard, and why Islanders fans are so happy he's gone. He's usually strong and smart with the puck, usually good positioning, etc. In accordance with the market of FA defensemen, I think he's living up to his salary, at least... Umberger and VL on the other hand...

If he changes any of the lines (save for Vinny's) before the next game, I'm going to go on a rampage.
- Tomahawk

Be at the ready

Same here.. He isn't Lidstrom 2.0... but he's been pretty solid IMO. I don't understand why people rip on him so hard, and why Islanders fans are so happy he's gone. He's usually strong and smart with the puck, usually good positioning, etc. In accordance with the market of FA defensemen, I think he's living up to his salary, at least... Umberger and VL on the other hand...
- WarriorHockey21

Every time I see Vinny I want to punch him. And I'm sure he's a nice fellow. Just get off my ice.

The number of blind passes (which invariably went to Panthers) last night also made me want to punch Vinny (and everyone else).

But it was an entertaining win. And the Flyers logo earrings are now 5-0.

Every time I see Vinny I want to punch him. And I'm sure he's a nice fellow. Just get off my ice.
- bodiva88

He's got 10pts, but only 1G, 21PIMs. CF% barely above 50% despite 60%+ O-ZS and the best teammates that team has to offer. Ugly -7, although it's probably mostly driven by poor SV% behind him.

I think his days as a top-6 winger are near over. Just a matter of time now.
- Tomahawk

I think he's still top 6. When you compare him to Umberger it's a huge drop off though.

unless the Oilers make an offer for Coburn that Hexy cant refuse
- vejim

That would be fine with me.

I think he's still top 6. When you compare him to Umberger it's a huge drop off though.
- PhillySportsGuy

Yeah, a stat line of 1G, 2 A, 9PIM, -5 in 13 games isn't exactly setting the world on fire.

Slightly off topic, but did anyone see what Tarasenko did to the Devils last night? It's absurd how this guy is just embarrassing people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUgiTmN1PfU

Yeah, a stat line of 1G, 2 A, 9PIM, -5 in 13 games isn't exactly setting the world on fire.
- jmatchett383

And much of that stat line (including the PIMs) was accumulated in just the Pittsburgh game.