I was meaning to look up Bourque's deal to see if such a trade would be worth it.

We've beaten the mindset behind the Hartnell trade to death but I never did believe the fact Umberger has less years justifies making the trade. Umberger wasn't very last season. It was rumored the Jackets were going to buy him out. Even with Hartnell's faults, he's a productive front line player and an asset should a better offer come along. Hextall was pick pocketed on this one.
- SuperSchennBros

I have to agree, I never liked the deal and it is quite clear we got burned.
Umberger is not what others have stated or hoped he would be.
Just 4 million plus skating around on a regular shift contributing very little

I was meaning to look up Bourque's deal to see if such a trade would be worth it.

We've beaten the mindset behind the Hartnell trade to death but I never did believe the fact Umberger has less years justifies making the trade. Umberger wasn't very last season. It was rumored the Jackets were going to buy him out. Even with Hartnell's faults, he's a productive front line player and an asset should a better offer come along. Hextall was pick pocketed on this one.
- SuperSchennBros

With the simple fact that Montreal probably wouldn't take on a longer & more expensive deal, it's not realistic.

The Hartnell deal is a bad one, strictly in terms of on ice results, but the financial aspects can't be ignored because that was a big motivation in the move. I think that on some level the Flyers were looking to send a message to the troops, that conditioning and discipline were going to be key things moving forward.

That said, IMO, Umberger has been largely terrible. He's been unable to generate much offense. He's been mediocre defensively. The team hasn't generated many chances with him on the ice, and conversely, they have been poor at limiting chances whne he's on ice.

He's seeing very favorable zone starts and match ups and not doing much with them

On a positive note that Schenn - Couturier - Read line looks to be firing pretty well.

Really sucks about Ghost

MacKinnon seems like a good dude. Fans attack players for every dirty hit regardless of whether the player meant to do it. The game moves so fast that I refuse to believe that every nasty looking hit was intentional. MacKinnon's comments after the game are a good indication that players don't mean to hurt players at least to some extent.

Really sucks about Ghost

MacKinnon seems like a good dude. Fans attack players for every dirty hit regardless of whether the player meant to do it. The game moves so fast that I refuse to believe that every nasty looking hit was intentional. MacKinnon's comments after the game are a good indication that players don't mean to hurt players at least to some extent.
- NickTheKid87

I agree. MacKinnon had zero intent to injure, just a hockey play that went wrong. He was a bit reckless, though and fortunately he seems to recognize it.

With the simple fact that Montreal probably wouldn't take on a longer & more expensive deal, it's not realistic.

The Hartnell deal is a bad one, strictly in terms of on ice results, but the financial aspects can't be ignored because that was a big motivation in the move. I think that on some level the Flyers were looking to send a message to the troops, that conditioning and discipline were going to be key things moving forward.

That said, IMO, Umberger has been largely terrible. He's been unable to generate much offense. He's been mediocre defensively. The team hasn't generated many chances with him on the ice, and conversely, they have been poor at limiting chances whne he's on ice.

He's seeing very favorable zone starts and match ups and not doing much with them
- Jsaquella

While it's possible Hartnell's deal wouldn't look very good on the tail end of his last three seasons, Hartnell is still good now. I have to believe a better deal could have been made. Umberger looks bad on the tail end his deal right now. I kind of have to believe that this would be a wash. Umbergeriisn't nearly as good of a skater as he was made out to be. He's discipline but a four million dollar waste of space.

While it's possible Hartnell's deal wouldn't look very good on the tail end of his last three seasons, Hartnell is still good now. I have to believe a better deal could have been made. Umberger looks bad on the tail end his deal right now. I kind of have to believe that this would be a wash. Umbergeriisn't nearly as good of a skater as he was made out to be. He's discipline but a four million dollar waste of space.
- SuperSchennBros

It would have been better if they moved Hartnell for a pick alone.

I don't think Hextall is as concerned with now as he is two years from now, when he's going to have to pay Jake Voracek, Sean Couturier & Brayden Schenn.

I'm not sure how much value Hartnell had because of the deal. teams have to consider the cap impact, not just now, but down the road. I doubt the Flyers could have made a deal that would have seen them move Hartnell for much more than picks or a depth guy and even then might have to eat money

I was meaning to look up Bourque's deal to see if such a trade would be worth it.

We've beaten the mindset behind the Hartnell trade to death but I never did believe the fact Umberger has less years justifies making the trade. Umberger wasn't very last season. It was rumored the Jackets were going to buy him out. Even with Hartnell's faults, he's a productive front line player and an asset should a better offer come along. Hextall was pick pocketed on this one.
- SuperSchennBros

Umberger was expected to be somewhat better then he has been. Which I think can still happen. He hit rock bottom last game. If you're going to be a role playing forward at 4.6M, you have to play close to mistake free hockey. He can't be easily knocked off the puck, leading to a goal. Or fail to skate an extra half stride on a dump in, because you don't want to get hit, leading to an unneccessary icing.

I have to agree, I never liked the deal and it is quite clear we got burned.
Umberger is not what others have stated or hoped he would be.
Just 4 million plus skating around on a regular shift contributing very little
- 3flyerkids

The Flyers did not expect the gap between players to be as large as it is. It's still early November. Still time for Umberger to play better.

The Flyers did not expect the gap between players to be as large as it is. It's still early November. Still time for Umberger to play better.
- MJL

Yes, there is still time. But unless he is injured somehow, there has been no sign or indication that he is even ABLE to play better at this point. Even players on the downside of their careers still bring it every once in a while....show a taste of what they used to have when they were productive. Umberger has not. Right now he just takes up a roster spot...harsh but accurate.

I don't want to say he seems uninterested, but he does seem used up.

Yes, there is still time. But unless he is injured somehow, there has been no sign or indication that he is even ABLE to play better at this point. Even players on the downside of their careers still bring it every once in a while....show a taste of what they used to have when they were productive. Umberger has not. Right now he just takes up a roster spot...harsh but accurate.

I don't want to say he seems uninterested, but he does seem used up.
- MBFlyerfan

Offensively, there hasn't been any sign. And he's been up and down defensively. Which can't happen if he's not going to generate any offense. He still had 16 goals last season, so I think there is still some ability there, or at least I'm hoping there is.

Sami Kapanen inducted into Finnish Hockey HOF. Congrats to one of hockey's true warriors.

Sami Kapanen inducted into Finnish Hockey HOF. Congrats to one of hockey's true warriors.
- Jsaquella

His versatility pales in comparison to the great RJ Umberger

Really sucks about Ghost

MacKinnon seems like a good dude. Fans attack players for every dirty hit regardless of whether the player meant to do it. The game moves so fast that I refuse to believe that every nasty looking hit was intentional. MacKinnon's comments after the game are a good indication that players don't mean to hurt players at least to some extent.
- NickTheKid87

You mean execution isn't an appropriate punishment? Well, if you want to live in a soft culture then don't be surprised if it happens again.

The Flyers did not expect the gap between players to be as large as it is. It's still early November. Still time for Umberger to play better.
- MJL

Ok if RJ is going to make me a believer he can start by being a BEAST against CBJ and score 2 in a Flyers 2-1 victory! Hartnell with CBJ goal!

On a more serious note. I really don't see any chance of him being on this team next year

Yes, there is still time. But unless he is injured somehow, there has been no sign or indication that he is even ABLE to play better at this point. Even players on the downside of their careers still bring it every once in a while....show a taste of what they used to have when they were productive. Umberger has not. Right now he just takes up a roster spot...harsh but accurate.

I don't want to say he seems uninterested, but he does seem used up.
- MBFlyerfan

I think the Flyers hoped he could rebound. He had a bad year last season in Columbus. So much so that the rumors were plentiful that the Jackets were going to buy him out.

I still think a primary factor in the Flyers viewpoint was to use Umberger to bridge the gap for a year or two, and then maybe see if they can dump him on a salary floor team or buy out the last year of his deal to clear room to re-sign Voracek, Couturier & Schenn

But the way he has played, they may need to adjust that plan. I'm still somewhat amazed he played 15 minutes against Colorado, as bad as he looked.

Ok if RJ is going to make me a believer he can start by being a BEAST against CBJ and score 2 in a Flyers 2-1 victory! Hartnell with CBJ goal!

On a more serious note. I really don't see any chance of him being on this team next year
- 3flyerkids

A buyout will cost them $1.5M over the next 4 years. Hartnell would have cost them $4.5M over those 4 years. The team would have traded Hartnell for 1 bad year of Umberger and a cap savings of $3M. Oh, and a 4th round pick.

Ok if RJ is going to make me a believer he can start by being a BEAST against CBJ and score 2 in a Flyers 2-1 victory! Hartnell with CBJ goal!

On a more serious note. I really don't see any chance of him being on this team next year
- 3flyerkids

I don't think anybody is rushing to trade for him, tbh. I'd rather just deal with the rest of his contract and be done with it than drag it out with a buyout.

I don't think anybody is rushing to trade for him, tbh. I'd rather just deal with the rest of his contract and be done with it than drag it out with a buyout.
- BulliesPhan87

I think their best option would be to throw him on the 4th line and give him limited minutes. Maybe buy him out for his final season or look for a cap floor team and entice them by throwing in a pick.

I am in Erie PA ( Xmas shopping. With girlfriend...everything is so much cheaper here than Toronto)this place has no Flyer stuff anywhere it's all Pens crap!
Oh well, at least I won at the casino last night even though I was getting chirped the odd time due to the fact I was wearing a Flyer hat.

I think their best option would be to throw him on the 4th line and give him limited minutes. Maybe buy him out for his final season or look for a cap floor team and entice them by throwing in a pick.
- PhillySportsGuy

Agreed. The way he has played he is a borderline 4th liner at this point.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcs...-not-increase-in-2015-16/

What would our financials look like this summer with no cap increase and Holmgren still running the ship?

I think their best option would be to throw him on the 4th line and give him limited minutes. Maybe buy him out for his final season or look for a cap floor team and entice them by throwing in a pick.
- PhillySportsGuy

4th line is the best option..less minutes is better for team.
Maybe he can " find" his defensive game while playing a 4th line role

Agreed. The way he has played he is a borderline 4th liner at this point.
- MBFlyerfan

If they decide to keep Umberger for another year, they NEED to get rid of VL. Both of them are possession killing players at even strength. It's impossible to hide both of them.

I think VL is the better player because he's good on the PP, but Umberger is more suited to 4th line duty and therefore won't be too upset when if the Flyers move him there.

4th line is the best option..less minutes is better for team.
Maybe he can " find" his defensive game while playing a 4th line role
- 3flyerkids

Putting him in match ups against other 4th lines will be beneficial to him and the team. It's pretty obvious PEB is better and deserves top 9 ice time over Umberger. PEB can do everything Umberger does except he does it much better.