True.

I understand the whole "needs linemates who are good fits for his game" complaint, and in Vinny's case it's somewhat true. But that same rationale isn't held for others. With Lecavalier, being that he's a big ticket veteran, shouldn't he be able to adapt & elevate the play of his wingers
- Jsaquella

Man, you know the rabbit hole is wide-open on this one

Vinny's got tremendous offensive instincts and still has the hands to put up points

His skating is bad, at best. His defense is inconsistent, at best

His contract appears to be immovable at this time, and the Flyers don't necessarily have a good fit with him as linemates, though they haven't tried Voracek with him

Add that up and you have a center who can put up some points here and there but is a liability at 5v5

The obligatory "in my opinion" is implied

Welcome to my world...
- mayorofangrytown

I think that's an adequate comparison.

It's a tough record to break. When Boosh broke it, it had stood for 50+years.
- Jsaquella

Damn. Didn't realize that. Boucher did it in 2003-2004, so it's stood a decade +.

Interesting back-read today. Hadn't really talked about Mason in awhile

I think, as some others do, that he's good enough to get the Flyers where they need to go. Have absolutely no questions about that, TBH

Glad Ray Emery's here, too

Man, you know the rabbit hole is wide-open on this one

Vinny's got tremendous offensive instincts and still has the hands to put up points

His skating is bad, at best. His defense is inconsistent, at best

His contract appears to be immovable at this time, and the Flyers don't necessarily have a good fit with him as linemates, though they haven't tried Voracek with him

Add that up and you have a center who can put up some points here and there but is a liability at 5v5

The obligatory "in my opinion" is implied
- AllInForFlyers

Good depiction of the situation. Looks like the Flyers are stuck with him.

Man, you know the rabbit hole is wide-open on this one

Vinny's got tremendous offensive instincts and still has the hands to put up points

His skating is bad, at best. His defense is inconsistent, at best

His contract appears to be immovable at this time, and the Flyers don't necessarily have a good fit with him as linemates, though they haven't tried Voracek with him

Add that up and you have a center who can put up some points here and there but is a liability at 5v5

The obligatory "in my opinion" is implied
- AllInForFlyers

Yeah, I get the implication.

I'm not trying to shred Vinny, to me , part of his struggles are due to the coach sticking him on lines that don't compliment him & his abilities.

I'd like Akeson & Bellemare with him, and then when Raffl returns, maybe slot him in on LW.

I understand-and agree with-the whole "needs linemates who are good fits for his game" complaint, and in Vinny's case it's somewhat true. But that same rationale isn't held for others. With Lecavalier, being that he's a big ticket veteran, shouldn't he be able to adapt & elevate the play of his wingers?
- Jsaquella

He got time w/ G and Voracek last season... couldn't keep up. Not even sure much better wingers will really help him out that much.

I think that's an adequate comparison.
- jmatchett383

I have an extensive record of adequacy.

Damn. Didn't realize that. Boucher did it in 2003-2004, so it's stood a decade +.
- PLindbergh31

You need a stretch where the goalie plays great and has luck. Guy that came closest in recent memory is Bryz, in his first season as a Flyer, had that 3 shutout streak

I have an extensive record of adequacy.
- mayorofangrytown

would you describe yourself as completely adequate?

Yeah, I get the implication.

I'm not trying to shred Vinny, to me , part of his struggles are due to the coach sticking him on lines that don't compliment him & his abilities.

I'd like Akeson & Bellemare with him, and then when Raffl returns, maybe slot him in on LW.
- Jsaquella

TBH, if Voracek wasn't red-hot right now, I would try him with Vinny and see if he could approach break-even at 5v5

Something like:
Raffl-Giroux-Simmonds
Schenn-Couturier-Read
Bellemare-Lecavalier-Voracek
Rinaldo-Vandevelde-Akeson

And yeah, if it was up to me, Umberger would be in the Shelley Suite

Probably an extensive one, too.

Lecavalier has looked better, but he hasn't looked especially good.
- Jsaquella

As an individual player, compared to how he looked last season. Lecavalier has looked pretty good to me. The Flyers are still searching for the right combination of players to pair together.

He got time w/ G and Voracek last season... couldn't keep up. Not even sure much better wingers will really help him out that much.
- Tomahawk

He did, but it wasn't...ahem...extensive

It's not an easy fix. I know he's a limited guy, and it's not an easy coaching job to fit him with guys that can enhance his abilities

would you describe yourself as completely adequate?
- BulliesPhan87

I don't think he's adequate at all, I'd call him good.

You need a stretch where the goalie plays great and has luck. Guy that came closest in recent memory is Bryz, in his first season as a Flyer, had that 3 shutout streak
- Jsaquella

That's right. When you think of this record you think of goalies like Parent, Dryden, Roy, Hasek, Brodeur. It's pretty surprising that a journeyman type goalie has the record.

He got time w/ G and Voracek last season... couldn't keep up. Not even sure much better wingers will really help him out that much.
- Tomahawk

He can barely keep up with Umberger, whose skating has also taken a turn for the worse

He did, but it wasn't...ahem...extensive

It's not an easy fix. I know he's a limited guy, and it's not an easy coaching job to fit him with guys that can enhance his abilities
- Jsaquella

What if they build 2 robots that just stand stationary at the opposing team's blue line and swing their sticks wildly back and forth? One of them is bound to hit the puck every now and then, and one of those is bound to hit him in stride as he goes across the blue line.

i see the oilers did us a favor last night beating nyr. krieder bumped another goalie. someday, i hope the goalie pulls a braveheart and impales him on his stick.
- hammarby31

That would be awesome!!
He's lucky he didn't play in Hextall's era, he'd already have been impaled!

What if they build 2 robots that just stand stationary at the opposing team's blue line and swing their sticks wildly back and forth? One of them is bound to hit the puck every now and then, and one of those is bound to hit him in stride as he goes across the blue line.
- jmatchett383

What are their cap hits?

True.

I understand-and agree with-the whole "needs linemates who are good fits for his game" complaint, and in Vinny's case it's somewhat true. But that same rationale isn't held for others. With Lecavalier, being that he's a big ticket veteran, shouldn't he be able to adapt & elevate the play of his wingers?
- Jsaquella

How isn't that rationale not held for other players? Not sure what is meant by big ticket veteran, but no, Lecavalier is no longer a player who can carry and elevate a line on his own. He's not capable of elevating Umberger and Vandevelde as a line, to the point where that line would be effective overall at 5 on 5 play. He is however very capable of putting up solid offensive numbers, playing with complimentary players. Even in his heyday, he still played with play makers such as Martin St. Louis. Lecavalier is clearly skating better and is stronger then he was last year. And can still obviously shoot the puck, and make plays with the puck. And to his credit, he has been making an strong effort to play his position well within the system, and play better defensively.

He can barely keep up with Umberger, whose skating has also taken a turn for the worse
- AllInForFlyers

Depressing.

That's right. When you think of this record you think of goalies like Parent, Dryden, Roy, Hasek, Brodeur. It's pretty surprising that a journeyman type goalie has the record.
- PLindbergh31

Yeah, HOFer Bill Durnan had the record before Boucher, and before him it was Frankie "Mr Zero" Brimsek

Good depiction of the situation. Looks like the Flyers are stuck with him.
- PLindbergh31

I think they are -- that's why if Voracek ever cools off, I would try him with Vinny for a stretch for one reason: You have to try everything to get something out of the guy that approaches break-even.

Few of us expect any tangible ROI on that deal. But you can't have him and his line getting effing buried every night, because until further notice, he's getting 13-ish minutes a night

I despise Kreider. He's suck a punk. The hate for the Rags is back in full force. I feel like before the last few years they weren't even relevant enough to hate.
- PLindbergh31

Relevency is irrelevant, my hatred for the Rangers has no limitation!

If the Rags were playing the minions of hell, I'd be wearing a beelzebub jersey!!

Man, you know the rabbit hole is wide-open on this one

Vinny's got tremendous offensive instincts and still has the hands to put up points

His skating is bad, at best. His defense is inconsistent, at best

His contract appears to be immovable at this time, and the Flyers don't necessarily have a good fit with him as linemates, though they haven't tried Voracek with him

Add that up and you have a center who can put up some points here and there but is a liability at 5v5

The obligatory "in my opinion" is implied
- AllInForFlyers

It may be your opinion, but his skating isn't bad. Not sure what you're looking at there. His skating is strong, and is noticeably improved over last season. With the right linemates, he's not a liability at 5 on 5 play. He's a +1 on the year. And in the 3rd period meltdown against Colorado, Lecavalier wasn't out for a goal against.

And this is my opinion.