Jared Crozier: Senators Steal A Point In Vancouver; Erik Karlsson, Rover?

Not sure I agree with your analysis of Karlsson.

My issue is that he's really the only legitimate top pairing D man on the team. If The Sens were smart they would have traded for Ehrhoff or tried to get Letang last off season when he was coming off an injury and the Penguins needed to clear cap space. Karlsson needs better players around him on the back end so that he doesn't do all the heavy lifting. But also he needs better centers that can also drive the play and move the puck around. Too many opponents can now target Karlsson because there isn't another guy on the team that can take the game over.

I think EK just needs to work on his defensive game a little more. Before his achilles injury, he was playing very well at both ends of the ice, there is no reason why he can't get back to that level.

I realize that he's an offensive d-man, and his offensive ability is obviously what makes him great. that being said, i don't think many people will have an issue if he sometimes thinks about his own end first, and picks his spots to jump into the play a little more carefully.....instead of almost every rush as he's doing now.

Ottawa have 2 former EXCELLENT defensive d-men coaching in the system (smith and richardson) there is no reason why EK's defensive game can't be worked on and improved. He's still young, lots of room to develop and grow his game.

Not sure I agree with your analysis of Karlsson.

My issue is that he's really the only legitimate top pairing D man on the team. If The Sens were smart they would have traded for Ehrhoff or tried to get Letang last off season when he was coming off an injury and the Penguins needed to clear cap space. Karlsson needs better players around him on the back end so that he doesn't do all the heavy lifting. But also he needs better centers that can also drive the play and move the puck around. Too many opponents can now target Karlsson because there isn't another guy on the team that can take the game over.
- riceroni

Could have and should haves...but Ehrhoff isn't exactly setting the world on fire, and Letang is a Karlsson clone (and a more expensive one at that), so I don't know if that is what the Senators need on the back end at this point in time.

Having Karlsson on the back end is a liability in his own end, regardless of who is playing with him. If someone has to cover for his misses, then the other three guys are scrambling to cover for that player. It doesn't work, and right now Karlsson isn't doing enough offensively to make up for the defensive deficiencies.

Teams now target him because he can't get it done. Getting a stronger partner might help, but neither of the two guys you listed are the answer. Scott Stevens, Chris Chelios or Chris Pronger in their prime might be. The Senators have what they have to work with, and for what they are, most of the other defensemen are fairly effective in their own end, except when they play with Karlsson and have to cover for him. Cowen was bad in that role, Phillips has been brutal in that role, and Methot struggled in that role last season.

At some point it has to be addressed that the problem lies elsewhere, and deploy the assets that Karlsson has in a position where he can have success. And it is not for lack of desire on Karlsson, because you can see on his face how frustrated he is with what is going on, but teams can attack him face to face because his style will allow you to beat him more often than not.

I am not saying it is THE answer, but it might be something worth considering and discussing. Obviously there are drawbacks (like replacing 22 minutes of even strength hockey Karlsson plays) but some of the benefits might outweigh the negatives

we're not going to create an entirely new system based on Karlsson SOMETIMES making an amazing rush up the ice

better idea: the coaches take the captain down a few notches by showing video of every one of his dumb defensive plays this season to the entire team, over and over


best Idea: I'll talk to his girlfriend and get her to reel him in a bit.. that guy is so whipped

I don't watch the Sens a lot but against the Leafs he just didn't seem that motivated defensively. I'm not sure there's a position for that.

we're not going to create an entirely new system based on Karlsson SOMETIMES making an amazing rush up the ice

better idea: the coaches take the captain down a few notches by showing video of every one of his dumb defensive plays this season to the entire team, over and over


best Idea: I'll talk to his girlfriend and get her to reel him in a bit.. that guy is so whipped
- conor_smythe

You don't think the Oilers had a different system for Gretzky than for anyone else; the penguins for Lemieux and now Crosby; The Bruins for Orr?

You build the system to fit your players. Perhaps Karlsson can change, but like I said it isn't lack of effort, it is lack of execution and maybe ability. Putting players in a position to succeed is the job of a coach. Sure, if he can bear down defensively and buy in then by all means do it, but I am not sure you are going to get him to change his game that drastically.

Couldnt believe he played 30 minutes against the Leafs, especially playing the night before.


He needs a good stay at home dman to play with.

Trade for Myers.

Or go big and try to trade for marc staal

Couldnt believe he played 30 minutes against the Leafs, especially playing the night before.


He needs a good stay at home dman to play with.

Trade for Myers.

Or go big and try to trade for marc staal
- jbold

I'd go for Myers over Staal because the Myers contract is actually pretty good now. I mean his real salary averages out to way less than his cap hit (good for Eugene) and he's also a really big dude. If he can get his game back to where it was then he can be a much better player than Staal (and I am assuming a $6M cap hit on his next deal)

Couldnt believe he played 30 minutes against the Leafs, especially playing the night before.


He needs a good stay at home dman to play with.

Trade for Myers.

Or go big and try to trade for marc staal
- jbold

Marc Staal or Dan Girardi would be the ideal guy for Karlsson if you could pry either out of NY.

Marc Staal or Dan Girardi would be the ideal guy for Karlsson if you could pry either out of NY.
- Jordo

What would it cost though? They'd want Stone, a pick and a prospect, at least?

if he can bear down defensively and buy in then by all means do it, but I am not sure you are going to get him to change his game that drastically.
- JaredCrozier

First, karlsson is not crosby gretzky or lemieux. Not even close

2nd, karlsson CAN play defense and quite well. He chooses not to. Look at the 2nd half of his norris season. Coaches told him he was cheating too much and he adjusted. The 2nd half of that season was night and day difference from the first half

3rd, I just dont see how building a system around one high scoring defenceman is effective. Thats just not the way the game is played.

A point-getting defenceman is supposed to be a bonus. Not a gameplan

EK isn't playing with the same passion or magic he did when Alfie was here - I think the injury, Alfie and Spezza leaving, trading Silf/Regin/Petersson, and all the pressure to be the guy he once was has sort of burnt him out a bit - they should find out who his best friend is in the NHL and trade for him - EK seemed to be doing his best when he played for other people and was afraid to disappoint them by posing or not hustling 100% - the spark that was there when he was first in the league seems to be gone.

Some players play better when there are other things are at stake, get EK's best bud who is a total hockey pig and get him in Ottawa. If EK has someone to play for he seems to play better

I think we could start small. Maybe play him with a competent partner before we start inventing positions.

Why trade for someone when the answer is 3 weeks away from returning? I won't go into the contract negotiations or how much Methot is worth but this season once Methot is in shape it'll help make the Sens that much deeper at the blue line. Pair him up with Karlsson and the trickle down effect will go from there. Someone may get hurt in the mean time but you'd have a solid 6 blueliners especially with Cowen playing better and Ceci being solid all season. I'm not saying it is the end to their defensive problems but hopefully they can back off Karlsson's minutes a bit. Sometimes he is tired and needs to go for a change but stays out there. It's a learning experience as captain that he can't do everything and needs to learn he is hurting his team by staying on the ice longer than he should.

Why trade for someone when the answer is 3 weeks away from returning? I won't go into the contract negotiations or how much Methot is worth but this season once Methot is in shape it'll help make the Sens that much deeper at the blue line. Pair him up with Karlsson and the trickle down effect will go from there. Someone may get hurt in the mean time but you'd have a solid 6 blueliners especially with Cowen playing better and Ceci being solid all season. I'm not saying it is the end to their defensive problems but hopefully they can back off Karlsson's minutes a bit. Sometimes he is tired and needs to go for a change but stays out there. It's a learning experience as captain that he can't do everything and needs to learn he is hurting his team by staying on the ice longer than he should.
- tunmasterflex

Agreed.

It's a learning problem, not an ability one.

He will get it over time, when the coaches take the time to make it clear what is happening, and he doesn't have to strain himself night in night out to play 30 min and try to do it all himself.

How many times have we seen him lead a rush, then spin around and skate all the way back to catch a guy when the play goes the other way, but then fail to stop him from getting a shot?

This is the real issue, it's not a lack of effort, it's that he doesn't have the gas to make the execution.

Agreed.

It's a learning problem, not an ability one.

He will get it over time, when the coaches take the time to make it clear what is happening, and he doesn't have to strain himself night in night out to play 30 min and try to do it all himself.

How many times have we seen him lead a rush, then spin around and skate all the way back to catch a guy when the play goes the other way, but then fail to stop him from getting a shot?

This is the real issue, it's not a lack of effort, it's that he doesn't have the gas to make the execution.
- TommyDeVito

I personally think it's a little bit of everything.

he's definitely playing too many minutes. That being said, he makes a lot of lazy plays, and there is a ton of room for growth and deveopment in his defensive game.

I think reducing his minutes will help a bit, but he also needs to work a lot on his defensive game, as well as his effort level at times.

Why trade for someone when the answer is 3 weeks away from returning? I won't go into the contract negotiations or how much Methot is worth but this season once Methot is in shape it'll help make the Sens that much deeper at the blue line. Pair him up with Karlsson and the trickle down effect will go from there. Someone may get hurt in the mean time but you'd have a solid 6 blueliners especially with Cowen playing better and Ceci being solid all season. I'm not saying it is the end to their defensive problems but hopefully they can back off Karlsson's minutes a bit. Sometimes he is tired and needs to go for a change but stays out there. It's a learning experience as captain that he can't do everything and needs to learn he is hurting his team by staying on the ice longer than he should.
- tunmasterflex

The Blueline seems to be stabilizing - I think our speed up front is something we need to get real about - 9MM is a 3rd line checker and can't expect him to be a top 6 forward, Mika needs to sit for Pageau and let's see what speed and passion do for that line - sitting worked for Cowen and Mika needs a kick in the arse, Zach Smith has been invisible, Legwand is slow but as a 10 minute a night 4th line center he's okay, get him off that top PP, he just stands still and gets everyone else standing still

Mac - Turris - Ryan
Hoff - Lazar - Stone
Zibby - Pageau - Chiasson
9mm - Leggy - Neil

Trade Smith for picks - load up for this draft.

But enough about Karlsson, let's talk about the positives:

- Cowen continues to play great hockey since he had his benching, and thank god for that. Renewed hope for the future is a hell of a thing.

- Hoffman is exactly who I thought he was, a talent who deserves more ice. 4 goals in 4 games since they started playing him with good players, and he was able to get offense out of Legwand before that. This guy isn't some also-ran prospect, he is a piece of our future core, same as Lazar, Stone, and Ceci. Hope everyone is starting to see that.

- Andy continues to be hot, although he did let in a couple awkward ones tonight. We should have expected this, I guess, since his entire career has been up one season, down the next in a continuous pattern.

- Nice to see Turris finally put home one of the three dozen chances he's had in the last 4 or 5 games, someone needs to check and see if he's been hanging out with Condra too much outside the rink.

And the one bad note:

- I'm not sure how to feel about Zibanejad at this point, seems like the coaching staff has been trying damn near everything to get him going this season, and he just can't seem to perform. Not looking like the key piece we imagined he would become at this point. Hopefully a spark lights under his ass at some point, because right now he doesn't look like much more than a 3rd line center out there.

But enough about Karlsson, let's talk about the positives:

- Cowen continues to play great hockey since he had his benching, and thank god for that. Renewed hope for the future is a hell of a thing.

- Hoffman is exactly who I thought he was, a talent who deserves more ice. 4 goals in 4 games since they started playing him with good players, and he was able to get offense out of Legwand before that. This guy isn't some also-ran prospect, he is a piece of our future core, same as Lazar, Stone, and Ceci. Hope everyone is starting to see that.

- Andy continues to be hot, although he did let in a couple awkward ones tonight. We should have expected this, I guess, since his entire career has been up one season, down the next in a continuous pattern.

- Nice to see Turris finally put home one of the three dozen chances he's had in the last 4 or 5 games, someone needs to check and see if he's been hanging out with Condra too much outside the rink.

And the one bad note:

- I'm not sure how to feel about Zibanejad at this point, seems like the coaching staff has been trying damn near everything to get him going this season, and he just can't seem to perform. Not looking like the key piece we imagined he would become at this point. Hopefully a spark lights under his ass at some point, because right now he doesn't look like much more than a 3rd line center out there.
- TommyDeVito

I'm starting to get a little concerned about this as well. I'll still give him the benefit of the doubt, slow start and all that, but if he's still sucking tit and not producing at the 20-25 game mark, i'd start to be a little worried. it's obvious that he's an NHL player, but maybe not the top six or top line we were hoping.

That idea should be curbed quickly. Really? A rover? You realize he is a Norris winning defensemen... He has shown that he is more than a capable dman. He is overthinking right now IMO. Just needs to string together some good games and he will be fine.

As for Neil.... He showed his worth again tonight. 1 of 5 he is effective. I think next off season is where you will see this team turn the page on quite a few guys, he will be one of them. He is more than expendable.

I have a feeling the player who will be moved will be Zack Smith. I love the guy but he is replaceable.

I wouldn't be surprised if Stewart is traded here for Smith, Condra and a Pick/Prospect (Prince).

Then they could either keep Greening or move the guy. Waive him. Don't know. But Pageau will be here soon I would think. I don't think the D will be touched when Methot comes back.

That idea should be curbed quickly. Really? A rover? You realize he is a Norris winning defensemen... He has shown that he is more than a capable dman. He is overthinking right now IMO. Just needs to string together some good games and he will be fine.

As for Neil.... He showed his worth again tonight. 1 of 5 he is effective. I think next off season is where you will see this team turn the page on quite a few guys, he will be one of them. He is more than expendable.

I have a feeling the player who will be moved will be Zack Smith. I love the guy but he is replaceable.

I wouldn't be surprised if Stewart is traded here for Smith, Condra and a Pick/Prospect (Prince).

Then they could either keep Greening or move the guy. Waive him. Don't know. But Pageau will be here soon I would think. I don't think the D will be touched when Methot comes back.
- BodyCheckRadio

come on now....smith is worth way more than stewar all by himself. buffalo would need to add to that trade to make it happen, not ottawa. smith and condra are both better hockey players than stewart, and combined make nearly 1.5 mil less than he does. add to that the fact that prince as a prospect is probably worth more than stewart, a pending UFA. that's a terrible deal, sorry man.

i do agree that we'll see a pretty big roster turnover between now and sometime next season....tons of guys can and likely will be gone (neil, phillips, gryba, wiercioch, legwand, greening, condra, etc)

come on now....smith is worth way more than stewar all by himself. buffalo would need to add to that trade to make it happen, not ottawa.

i do agree that we'll see a pretty big roster turnover between now and sometime next season....tons of guys can and likely will be gone (neil, phillips, gryba, wiercioch, legwand, greening, condra, etc)
- sensarmy_11

I think Smith can be more valuable then Stewart but he hasn't done that in a couple of years - the intense, western, tough player we thought we were getting isn't the Z. Smith we get every night - he has another level to get to and he doesn't really ever do it.

Smith should be our Brendan Prust, Boro doesn't get him going with his physical play - he doesn't seem to have that wolf pack mentality the 4th line tough guys need to be top players, I'm kinda disappointed in Smith's play this season.

I think Smith can be more valuable then Stewart but he hasn't done that in a couple of years - the intense, western, tough player we thought we were getting isn't the Z. Smith we get every night - he has another level to get to and he doesn't really ever do it.

Smith should be our Brendan Prust, Boro doesn't get him going with his physical play - he doesn't seem to have that wolf pack mentality the 4th line tough guys need to be top players, I'm kinda disappointed in Smith's play this season.
- tuna99

i don't disagree with any of this. that being said, every "negative" thing you said about smith, also applies to stewart, 10 times more.....and he comes with a 4+ mil price tag.

the ONLY move i'd support for stewart is a straight up trade for greening........beyond that, there isn't a player on our roster who i wouldn't want/take over stewart.