my SOLE desire in acquiring stewart, at the cost of greening or even michalek, is that we get rid of a 3 year deal that we don't want, in exchange for a 1 year deal that we don't want.

if it wasn't for that, i'd have zero interest.
- sensarmy_11

I think people have to stop expecting Greening to be traded. He will only be a waiver pick up if he is involved in transactions. Look no further than the Rene Bourque move this week. A guy very similar to Greening now, but had a much more successful past. No one wanted him. I don't see why anyone would want Greening if the whole league let Bourque pass.

I am really starting to warm up to our Dmen.

Cowen and Gryba have been solid as hell the last few games. Gryba especially impressed me last night. He made countless short passes in his own zone, leading to clean breakouts. He battled hard on the boards too.

Ceci just gets better every single game.

IMO Karlsson would benefit from less ice time. There are so many times I see him with the opportunity to skate the puck out of the zone, or through the neutral zone, like he used to, and instead he looks for a pass. I dunno if it's still injury related, or due to tiredness, but either way, cutting down his mins will help.

If guys like Cowen, Gryba and Ceci can step up and Methot can come back and play decently, I think there is an opportunity to lessen the load on Karlsson.

I still think the Sens would benefit from another top 4 Dman, but it's not as dire as it seemed at the beginning of the year.

When Methot comes back I see Phillips as being the odd man out. But since they won't scratch Neil, regardless of how terrible he is, I doubt they'd scratch Philly.
- Charliebox

The defense is starting to improve which is very nice. I too am liking what I'm seeming in Cowen, and if he can continue to improve then thats a big area of progress.

The defense still looks similar to last season to me though. However the fact that this is without their second best d-man should be seen as an area of improvement.

In the offseason it appeared that managements plan was to allow the D to grow and hope they would do a 180. We're starting to see some shades of that, I just htink it might take a little longer than people think.

I think people have to stop expecting Greening to be traded. He will only be a waiver pick up if he is involved in transactions. Look no further than the Rene Bourque move this week. A guy very similar to Greening now, but had a much more successful past. No one wanted him. I don't see why anyone would want Greening if the whole league let Bourque pass.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

oh, believe me, i'm not expecting it. my comment was because when someone suggested acquiring stewart, my response was that the only trade bringing him to ottawa that interested me, would see greening going the other way.

i don't, for one second, think it would actually happen.........it's simply the only thing i'd want to move if we were acquiring stewart.

The defense is starting to improve which is very nice. I too am liking what I'm seeming in Cowen, and if he can continue to improve then thats a big area of progress.

The defense still looks similar to last season to me though. However the fact that this is without their second best d-man should be seen as an area of improvement.

In the offseason it appeared that managements plan was to allow the D to grow and hope they would do a 180. We're starting to see some shades of that, I just htink it might take a little longer than people think.
- david22

I don't find the D looks anything like they did last season. Karlsson is still struggling at times, but outside that, everyone seems to have improved.

Sure the Sens are giving up a lot of shots, but most are from the outside and they are clearing rebounds well. Outside the first period last night, the D did really well to keep the Nucks forwards to the outside.

Our PK has also drastically improved over last year.

I know a lot of it can be attributed to goaltending, and I understand it, but there just doesn't seem to be as many odd man rushes, or 2nd and 3rd chances this year (when Karlsson isn't on the ice, that is).

Every single guy, even Phillips, seems to have improved over last season.

I don't find the D looks anything like they did last season. Karlsson is still struggling at times, but outside that, everyone seems to have improved.

Sure the Sens are giving up a lot of shots, but most are from the outside and they are clearing rebounds well. Outside the first period last night, the D did really well to keep the Nucks forwards to the outside.

Our PK has also drastically improved over last year.

I know a lot of it can be attributed to goaltending, and I understand it, but there just doesn't seem to be as many odd man rushes, or 2nd and 3rd chances this year (when Karlsson isn't on the ice, that is).

Every single guy, even Phillips, seems to have improved over last season.
- Charliebox

I think the D has improved, but not as much as it appears right now.

Like you said, goal tending has improved as well. I would argue that that is the biggest improvement, more so than the defense. ANd it is perhaps masking some things.

ANdy stood on his head numerous times last night. Now, that was against one of the better teams in the league right now. But its been like that for numerous games this season now.

So Bonino is a pretty good player eh?

I remember people losing their minds last summer when he was rumoured to be coming to the Sens if Spezza was going the other way.

Great pickup by the Nucks.

I think people have to stop expecting Greening to be traded. He will only be a waiver pick up if he is involved in transactions. Look no further than the Rene Bourque move this week. A guy very similar to Greening now, but had a much more successful past. No one wanted him. I don't see why anyone would want Greening if the whole league let Bourque pass.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

This.

Was just talking to a colleague about it actually- and this is the most logical move the team can make when Methot comes back (which may be as soon as Saturday).

Greening on waivers, when nobody picks him up, send him to the farm.

What would it cost though? They'd want Stone, a pick and a prospect, at least?
- david22

Girardi would definitely cost you pieces because he's extended long term on a nice contract. If I'm not mistaken though, there were talks at some point over the summer with the Rangers thinking of moving him?


With regard to Staal- you've gotta believe he tests the open market if things don't go really well in NY this year. Like, conference finals really well. Who knows, maybe he tests the market anyway?

He'd be a more expensive option, as I could see him getting between 6-7 million in the open market, maybe even more. People are spending stupid amounts of money on defense these days..

He'd be a more expensive option, as I could see him getting between 6-7 million in the open market, maybe even more. People are spending stupid amounts of money on defense these days..
- Jordo

yah, and this is exactly why i think the sens are "making do" with "what we have"...
we're not there yet as far as becoming a contender goes. so, i think the mentality is: lets roll with what we have, and when / if an opportunity arises (prolly not happening this year) let's upgrade, or.. if given enough time guys like ceci, cowen, classean, wideman, etc. will solve this problem for us (which appears to be the cheapest option, if you are patient (and lucky).
the problem, of course, is its a bit of a chkn/egg dilemma: will the sens get better over time and then be willing to spend big on d man (conference push / cup run) or will they eventually come to what many people feel is obvious: the need for a true top 4 in order to become good / stable enough to make a run.

in either case its clear that mgnt has decided to invest in "defence" in terms of goaltending (rolling with both lehner and andy extensions) and wait, patiently, to see if young d-core develops enough that allows them to invest in the "top 6 power forward" they want, rather than top 4 d.

so, i guess we just have to wait and see.

Could have and should haves...but Ehrhoff isn't exactly setting the world on fire, and Letang is a Karlsson clone (and a more expensive one at that), so I don't know if that is what the Senators need on the back end at this point in time.

Having Karlsson on the back end is a liability in his own end, regardless of who is playing with him. If someone has to cover for his misses, then the other three guys are scrambling to cover for that player. It doesn't work, and right now Karlsson isn't doing enough offensively to make up for the defensive deficiencies.

Teams now target him because he can't get it done. Getting a stronger partner might help, but neither of the two guys you listed are the answer. Scott Stevens, Chris Chelios or Chris Pronger in their prime might be. The Senators have what they have to work with, and for what they are, most of the other defensemen are fairly effective in their own end, except when they play with Karlsson and have to cover for him. Cowen was bad in that role, Phillips has been brutal in that role, and Methot struggled in that role last season.

At some point it has to be addressed that the problem lies elsewhere, and deploy the assets that Karlsson has in a position where he can have success. And it is not for lack of desire on Karlsson, because you can see on his face how frustrated he is with what is going on, but teams can attack him face to face because his style will allow you to beat him more often than not.
- JaredCrozier

Jared, I think that you, like many others, are too quick to jump on the gun and criticize the elite talents in the league. Yes, he hasn't been that good defensively this year, but he is still one of the youngest players to win a norris trophy. That means that he still has potential. I think the team should ask him to play a little more conservative, but asking him to change positions is more than a slap to the face, its very insulting. The guy is still one of the best D's in the world, you need to give credit where it is due if you want to criticize.

yah, and this is exactly why i think the sens are "making do" with "what we have"...
we're not there yet as far as becoming a contender goes. so, i think the mentality is: lets roll with what we have, .... if given enough time guys like ceci, cowen, classean, wideman, etc. .......so, i guess we just have to wait and see.
- sen_smile

This is obviously what Murray had in mind at the start of the year.

I too like the progression of both Ceci and Cowan, but expect bumps along the road with both of them. That said, in 2-3 years they should turn into the #3/4 pairing that a good contender needs.

At the end of this season our T4 should be

Methot - Karlsson
Cowan - Ceci

If the middle pair continue to improve and Methot can get up to speed,we should be in good shape by the end of the year and for the next couple of years.

Now, if Ottawa would like to get a #2 to play with Karlsson for the next 5 years (ie a Girardi/Staal type), I'd be OK with that too - but it will costs them a ton...... pieces like Methot, Stone/Peumple, Gryba/Boro, etc.

This is obviously what Murray had in mind at the start of the year.

I too like the progression of both Ceci and Cowan, but expect bumps along the road with both of them. That said, in 2-3 years they should turn into the #3/4 pairing that a good contender needs.

At the end of this season our T4 should be

Methot - Karlsson
Cowan - Ceci

If the middle pair continue to improve and Methot can get up to speed,we should be in good shape by the end of the year and for the next couple of years.

Now, if Ottawa would like to get a #2 to play with Karlsson for the next 5 years (ie a Girardi/Staal type), I'd be OK with that too - but it will costs them a ton...... pieces like Methot, Stone/Peumple, Gryba/Boro, etc.
- SensnRBs

If this was a development year why sign Legwand - give that spot to Pageau or Grant and why sign 9MM - let Puempel / Prince / Robinson play there?

This team is expected to make the playoffs because we went out and spent some money to get some vets in here

Zack Smith is useless on the wing, zibby needs to be put on wing cause all he does is put his head down and pass. no problems with the D, they are going to be great when Methot comes back. Hoffman is the Man !!!!!!! If you think Murray would trade Stone then give your head a shake, he wouldnt he trade Stone for Marc Stall straight up. Stone is here for ten years, he reminds me of Tim Kerr. I think we are do for a little Sens winning streak.

no to Karlsson being a rover. As someone insightfully pointed out a while ago, Karlsson's game flourished the most when he had space to work... Space is what he used to have flying down the ice from the back-end, space that allowed him to successfully carry the puck into the zone and generate offence in the way that made the Senators so exciting to watch. As a result of that need for space, I don't think that he could generate offence the same way from the wing, but I'm not sure he's capable of generating offence from the back-end the same way either.

As Gord suggested, could be that he's still not (and perhaps never will be) fully recovered from the Achilles injury. Maybe teams are covering him better. Maybe a combination of the two. But it does strike me that Karlsson's inability to pull away from the forecheck and lead a rush up the ice is what's killed him this year, both offensively and defensively.

Jared, I think that you, like many others, are too quick to jump on the gun and criticize the elite talents in the league. Yes, he hasn't been that good defensively this year, but he is still one of the youngest players to win a norris trophy. That means that he still has potential. I think the team should ask him to play a little more conservative, but asking him to change positions is more than a slap to the face, its very insulting. The guy is still one of the best D's in the world, you need to give credit where it is due if you want to criticize.
- PtotheY

It seems most hockey fans are like that. Start a discussion about Sidney Crosby and you'll probably see more negative posts than positive posts.

People are quickly become fans of "complete" hockey players. This is fine, but they ignore that some "incomplete" players are just as valuable. Funny how there was so many fans coming to Karlsson defence when people pooped on his defensive game a year or two ago, but now those same fans are complaining about that very fact.

Erik Karlsson

His game is offensive first defense second. That means offensive his so far ahead of his defensive game. He isn't a defensive liability but his defensive play is average right now and overall hasn't been at a very high level since the injury . How many people out there have had their Achilles tendon cut? Anyone wonder what happened to Dave Bolland? How's he looking since that thing?

Karlsson logs huge minutes. Plays risky which sees him rushing back to prevent 2-1s and, at times, breakaways. Would it be better if he was a +15 and had 55 points a season? Ofcourse. But how many Dmen do that again? He needs a LEFT SHOT (sorry Myers is out; M.Staal, Edler, Ehroff can work) that can move the puck and his feet enough to log minutes; defensive ability needs to be above average. Which brings us too the next topic

Marc Methot or Jared Cowen

One of these two players can (and has to) step on the left side to play with Karlsson. Methot's a great skater with great mobility and can play aggressive but smart hockey. Cowen's potential exceeds Methot and physically can be much more scary but he doesn't move the way Methot does and doesn't play as well positionally (from what we've seen).

Trade Weircioch

When Methot returns next month it'll be 8Dmen (with 2 guys in Bingo ready to use). Weircioch showed some promise but with the incredible progress of Ceci, and the emergence of Boroweici on the left side, PW is sitting at $2M. IF Methot is resigned then he has to be traded. But if Methot isn't....how is this D even in the top 15 in the league?

Zack Smith is useless on the wing, zibby needs to be put on wing cause all he does is put his head down and pass. no problems with the D, they are going to be great when Methot comes back. Hoffman is the Man !!!!!!! If you think Murray would trade Stone then give your head a shake, he wouldnt he trade Stone for Marc Stall straight up. Stone is here for ten years, he reminds me of Tim Kerr. I think we are do for a little Sens winning streak.
- JS_19

wow .... there's a throw back!!!!