Right. The car in question, LeCavalier and Umberger, has a pair of poopty tires, with a blown suspension and a bad transmission. Pretty sure there are semen stains on the back seat as well.

Anyway, point being that I don't absolve players coming off of injury for poopty play. If its a young guy dealing with some freak accident so be it. If its an old timer that's on the decline, injuries, being injury prone, and the results of increased wear/tear should be factored in when evaluating a player.
- flyer_nutter

Absolutely, this

Yes. To put it another way, over the past two seasons, plus the start of this season, Vinny Lecavalier is scoring at a rate of 0.64 PPG. Mike Richards is 0.55.

Richards plays a far more defense first role, yet only averages 0.11 PPG less than Vinny.
- Jsaquella

It never stopped Richards before.

Wouldn't Lecavalier's numbers grow if he were healthy and playing more?

While we're on the topic of age, Lecavalier is older. Being what? 35? Being a declining player is almost expected. Richards should still be more productive at age...? What? 29??

Richards also didn't have a fractured back to deal with.
- MJL

I get your point of not blaming the player for their injury, but the results of said injuries, and the decline in play because of them..

Imo should be factored in when evaluating a player, or giving contracts, etc.

Right. The car in question, LeCavalier and Umberger, has a pair of poopty tires, with a blown suspension and a bad transmission. Pretty sure there are semen stains on the back seat as well.

Anyway, point being that I don't absolve players coming off of injury for poopty play. If its a young guy dealing with some freak accident so be it. If its an old timer that's on the decline, injuries, being injury prone, and the results of increased wear/tear should be factored in when evaluating a player.
- flyer_nutter

I'm sorry, how old are you exactly?

Yeah, at some point -- old NFL saying: "Can't make the club if you're in the tub"

Why is Carlo Coliacovo a fringe NHLer, at his age?

At some point, not being healthy for extended periods does matter, and rightly or wrongly, players are viewed differently if they miss extended time
- AllInForFlyers

I think Colaiacovo showed that he is not a fringe NHL player in just the few games that he played with the Flyers. So that's not correct. And there's a big difference between not being interested in a player with an injury history, because of the obvious. Then in blaming a player for always being injured. In most cases, it's not something that a player can control.
Any objective analysis of a player, has to include looking at injuries. I can see a conclusion being reached that there is no interest in a player, because of injury history. That is reasonable. Critiquing a player's play, and ignoring a serious injury, is not reasonable

It never stopped Richards before.

Wouldn't Lecavalier's numbers grow if he were healthy and playing more?

While we're on the topic of age, Lecavalier is older. Being what? 35? Being a declining player is almost expected. Richards should still be more productive at age...? What? 29??
- SuperSchennBros

That's the thing. Expecting him to return to full health is one thing, optimistic but I can accept that even if I don't see it happening.

His numbers growing if he played more? Honestly think sometimes players just start declining, and become shot. Umberger and LeCavalier are close to, if not done imo as quality NHL players. Age. Both guys were great 8 years ago.

Right. The car in question, LeCavalier and Umberger, has a pair of poopty tires, with a blown suspension and a bad transmission. Pretty sure there are semen stains on the back seat as well.

Anyway, point being that I don't absolve players coming off of injury for poopty play. If its a young guy dealing with some freak accident so be it. If its an old timer that's on the decline, injuries, being injury prone, and the results of increased wear/tear should be factored in when evaluating a player.
- flyer_nutter

Pls confirm if "back seat" is a metaphor for something else or if we're still talking about metaphorical cars

I get your point of not blaming the player for their injury, but the results of said injuries, and the decline in play because of them..

Imo should be factored in when evaluating a player, or giving contracts, etc.
- flyer_nutter

Absolutely it should be factored in when deciding whether to sign or trade for a player. But that's different from omitting an injury as a factor when looking at a player's play.

I think Colaiacovo showed that he is not a fringe NHL player in just the few games that he played with the Flyers. So that's not correct. And there's a big difference between not being interested in a player with an injury history, because of the obvious. Then in blaming a player for always being injured. In most cases, it's not something that a player can control.
Any objective analysis of a player, has to include looking at injuries. I can see a conclusion being reached that there is no interest in a player, because of injury history. That is reasonable. Critiquing a player's play, and ignoring a serious injury, is not reasonable
- MJL

If he wasn't a fringe NHLer, how does he not get signed -- at a position of dire need around the NHL -- until the second month of the NHL season?

He was a healthy scratch for much of last season. He's a fringe NHLer now, and just because he's a Flyer right now doesn't mean it's incorrect to label him as such

I'm sorry, how old are you exactly?
- SuperSchennBros

23. I am very curious what that has to do with this. Please educate me.

If he wasn't a fringe NHLer, how does he not get signed -- at a position of dire need -- until the second month of the NHL season?

He was a healthy scratch for much of last season. He's a fringe NHLer now, and just because he's a Flyer right now doesn't mean it's incorrect to label him as such
- AllInForFlyers

This is all just fruit and unicorns.

Lets get real. Umberger, LeCavalier are a piece of poop at this point in their careers. For whatever reason. Carlo is as fragile as a twig.

That's the thing. Expecting him to return to full health is one thing, optimistic but I can accept that even if I don't see it happening.

His numbers growing if he played more? Honestly think sometimes players just start declining, and become shot. Umberger and LeCavalier are close to, if not done imo as quality NHL players. Age. Both guys were great 8 years ago.
- flyer_nutter

If a player plays an 82 full season schedule, rather 69 games. One would think without question, heooffensive numbers would grow.

It never stopped Richards before.

Wouldn't Lecavalier's numbers grow if he were healthy and playing more?

While we're on the topic of age, Lecavalier is older. Being what? 35? Being a declining player is almost expected. Richards should still be more productive at age...? What? 29??
- SuperSchennBros

Yeah, so we can ignore all those things like usage, team system and role on the team? The fact that Richards is used as a defense-first guy, while Lecavalier is heavily used in an offensive role doesn't matter at all?

But we're going to use Vinny's injuries as an excuse? Bottom line, the guy playing a highly offensive role averaged 0.64 PPG on a team playing a more offensive system and the other guy averaged 0.55 PPG in a defensive first role on a team that plays a more defensive system.

23. I am very curious what that has to do with this. Please educate me.
- flyer_nutter

This is all just fruit and unicorns.

Lets get real. Umberger, LeCavalier are a piece of poop at this point in their careers. For whatever reason. Carlo is as fragile as a twig.
- flyer_nutter

Exactly -- for whatever reason, whether it be age, fragility, injuries, whatever, Umberger, Lecavalier, Richards, Coliacovo are all declining assets

Only on this site would someone try to debate otherwise

Right. The car in question, LeCavalier and Umberger, has a pair of poopty tires, with a blown suspension and a bad transmission. Pretty sure there are semen stains on the back seat as well.

Anyway, point being that I don't absolve players coming off of injury for poopty play. If its a young guy dealing with some freak accident so be it. If its an old timer that's on the decline, injuries, being injury prone, and the results of increased wear/tear should be factored in when evaluating a player.
- flyer_nutter

It should be factored in when looking at the durability of a player. But you just can't ignore an injury as a factor.

It should be factored in when looking at the durability of a player. But you just can't ignore an injury as a factor.
- MJL

An injury for a player playing like poop?

Exactly -- for whatever reason, whether it be age, fragility, injuries, whatever, Umberger, Lecavalier, Richards, Coliacovo are all declining assets

Only on this site would someone try to debate otherwise
- AllInForFlyers

The only time injury matters is when it's used for an excuse as to defend a guy who didn't play up to expectations. Otherwise, it doesn't matter

If he wasn't a fringe NHLer, how does he not get signed -- at a position of dire need around the NHL -- until the second month of the NHL season?

He was a healthy scratch for much of last season. He's a fringe NHLer now, and just because he's a Flyer right now doesn't mean it's incorrect to label him as such
- AllInForFlyers

He wasn't signed because of a durability issue. He has had a hard time staying healthy. In terms of ability, it's pretty clear he can play the game. If it wasn't for the injury issues, he wouldn't have been available now.

23. I am very curious what that has to do with this. Please educate me.
- flyer_nutter

You have no frame of reference. Your young, you don't have to work hard to build up your stamina. You have met an elderly person in your young 23 years, right? To me, what your asking is like asking why players don't ALL play well into their 40's and 50's. A 30 something year old's maturity is different from ten years prior or at least should be.

Pls confirm if "back seat" is a metaphor for something else or if we're still talking about metaphorical cars
- Giroux_Is_God

bump

Exactly -- for whatever reason, whether it be age, fragility, injuries, whatever, Umberger, Lecavalier, Richards, Coliacovo are all declining assets

Only on this site would someone try to debate otherwise
- AllInForFlyers

Mark Streit is a declining asset. Braydon Coburn is a declining asset. Ray Emery is a declining asset. And on and on. A declining player can still be a good player.

You have no frame of reference. Your young, you don't have to work hard to build up your stamina. You have met an elderly person in your young 23 years, right? To me, what your asking is like asking why players don't ALL play well into their 40's and 50's. A 30 something year old's maturity is different from ten years prior or at least should be.
- SuperSchennBros

Is this one of those "you're young therefore your opinion is invalid" type thing?

Love that poop.

I am very tired. I am confused. Horny. Hungry and no lady friend here for a few hours.. I am not sure what we are debating.

That Vinny sucks because he is injured? That he shouldn't be blamed for an injury? That his play will improve once he is healed? Is nutella too expensive? Why do farts cause such fear? Fear of fecal leakage?

Help me.

An injury for a player playing like poop?
- flyer_nutter

It could be the cause of the player playing like poop.