You have no frame of reference. Your young, you don't have to work hard to build up your stamina. You have met an elderly person in your young 23 years, right? To me, what your asking is like asking why players don't ALL play well into their 40's and 50's. A 30 something year old's maturity is different from ten years prior or at least should be.
- SuperSchennBros

Old enough to know the difference between your and you're sir.

The only time injury matters is when it's used for an excuse as to defend a guy who didn't play up to expectations. Otherwise, it doesn't matter
- Jsaquella

Legitimate injuries are not excuses. It's a fact that injuries can affect a players effectiveness.

He wasn't signed because of a durability issue. He has had a hard time staying healthy. In terms of ability, it's pretty clear he can play the game. If it wasn't for the injury issues, he wouldn't have been available now.
- MJL

The ability to play the game isn't the only thing that matters when discussing the value of a player and whether or not that makes them a fringe NHLer -- durability, desire, other factors come into it, and sometimes they don't trump NHL skill

Yeah, so we can ignore all those things like usage, team system and role on the team? The fact that Richards is used as a defense-first guy, while Lecavalier is heavily used in an offensive role doesn't matter at all?

But we're going to use Vinny's injuries as an excuse? Bottom line, the guy playing a highly offensive role averaged 0.64 PPG on a team playing a more offensive system and the other guy averaged 0.55 PPG in a defensive first role on a team that plays a more defensive system.
- Jsaquella

Richards plays on the fourth line not because he's being punished but it's primarily his role now. He's not scoring and has much better offensive players on his team with him. Vincent Lecavalier isn't a defensive player. Defense is a weakness of his.

The bottomline is Lecavalier isn't a healthy player regardless and WOULD do more if Lecavalier played more games in a season.

I am very tired. I am confused. Horny. Hungry and no lady friend here for a few hours.. I am not sure what we are debating.

That Vinny sucks because he is injured? That he shouldn't be blamed for an injury? That his play will improve once he is healed? Is nutella too expensive? Why do farts cause such fear? Fear of fecal leakage?

Help me.
- flyer_nutter

Very small sample size, but Lecavalier is currently scoring at a 23 goal, 35 assist pace.

Old enough to know the difference between your and you're sir.
- flyer_nutter

But not old enough to know how the human body works by simply going outside and noticing all the variety in ages?

I am very tired. I am confused. Horny. Hungry and no lady friend here for a few hours.. I am not sure what we are debating.

That Vinny sucks because he is injured? That he shouldn't be blamed for an injury? That his play will improve once he is healed? Is nutella too expensive? Why do farts cause such fear? Fear of fecal leakage?

Help me.
- flyer_nutter

5 days of no Flyers hockey will make the strongest of men weep.

The ability to play the game isn't the only thing that matters when discussing the value of a player and whether or not that makes them a fringe NHLer -- durability, desire, other factors come into it, and sometimes they don't trump NHL skill
- AllInForFlyers

You have a point there that his durability is a factor. I'm talking about his ability to actually play. If he's healthy, he's better then a lot of defenseman teams have in their lineup currently. But of course, being able to stay healthy, can be factored in as part of his ability.

Mark Streit is a declining asset. Braydon Coburn is a declining asset. Ray Emery is a declining asset. And on and on. A declining player can still be a good player.
- MJL

And in the case of the three players you listed, they are good players

The other four players are, in some cases, once-highly productive players who are now lesser players who, to be honest, take up far too much of our time for the value they bring

But not old enough to know how the human body works by simply going outside and noticing all the variety in ages?
- SuperSchennBros

Man. I work at a Burger King. I don't know poop about the human body. Educate me.

And in the case of the three players you listed, they are good players

The other four players are, in some cases, once-highly productive players who are now lesser players who, to be honest, take up far too much of our time for the value they bring
- AllInForFlyers

Too much of our time?

Richards plays on the fourth line not because he's being punished but it's primarily his role now. He's not scoring and has much better offensive players on his team with him. Vincent Lecavalier isn't a defensive player. Defense is a weakness of his.

The bottomline is Lecavalier isn't a healthy player regardless and WOULD do more if Lecavalier played more games in a season.
- SuperSchennBros

When injuries become annual events, you can't use the "if he was healthy" card with as much weight. The reality is, Vinny has been injured in each of the last few seasons and missed significant time. Being healthy for him is not something that can be counted on. So saying, if he was healthy isn't that valid an excuse

Richards is playing a more defensive role, because he's capable of doing so. At the same time he's being used in a highly defensive role, he's scoring at a pace that is 0.11 PPG less than Vinny is scoring at.

It's fair to assume if Richards was used the same way Lecavalier is used, he'd score at a similar rate. Which was the point of comparing the two players-if they had the same contract, I'd take Richards in a heartbeat over Vinny. But the contract-and the contract alone-makes Lecavalier more attractive for the Flyers.

Man. I work at a Burger King. I don't know poop about the human body. Educate me.
- flyer_nutter

You post a wheelchair every time Lecavalier scores. Lecavalier had a bad back last season. Now you appear to be asking why Lecavalier shouldn't get a pass because of injuries and age.

Gee, why can't paralyzed people walk? Do you even understand how important a person's back is to the human body?

You post a wheelchair every time Lecavalier scores. Lecavalier had a bad back last season. Now you appear to be asking why Lecavalier shouldn't get a pass because of injuries and age.

Gee, why can't paralyzed people walk? Do you even understand how important a person's back is to the human body?
- SuperSchennBros

I do not.

Some guy on here was a nurse. We should ask him.

Its like saying the old geezer down the street isn't that good at picking up chicks anymore.

We shouldn't blame him, but damnit he's going to be my wingman every damn night.

This made sense in my head.
- flyer_nutter

Too much of our time?
- MJL

Sure -- we talk about them because we come here to talk about hockey

But Mike Richards, at this stage of his career, is a fourth-line forward with diminishing speed, a huge contract and pedestrian production -- and this isn't sudden. He was trending that way for the vast majority of last season

He's not a difference-maker anymore, and he's no more relevant right now than Marcus Kruger. He's not worth the energy we give him, anymore

When injuries become annual events, you can't use the "if he was healthy" card with as much weight. The reality is, Vinny has been injured in each of the last few seasons and missed significant time. Being healthy for him is not something that can be counted on.

Richards is playing a more defensive role, because he's capable of doing so. At the same time he's being used in a highly defensive role, he's scoring at a pace that is 0.11 PPG less than Vinny is scoring at.

It's fair to assume if Richards was used the same way Lecavalier is used, he'd score at a similar rate. Which was the point of comparing the two players-if they had the same contract, I'd take Richards in a heartbeat over Vinny. But the contract-and the contract alone-makes Lecavalier more attractive for the Flyers.
- Jsaquella

Grouping all injuries together in one big lump, isn't something that should be done either. A back injury is one thing that should cause concern. Getting hit with a puck on the skate, isn't an injury that should cause concern. Other then the back injury, Lecavalier's injuries have been injuries that can happen to any play regardless of age. Such as foot injuries, and broken hands, which happened 3 times in recent years.

Sure -- we talk about them because we come here to talk about hockey

But Mike Richards, at this stage of his career, is a fourth-line forward with diminishing speed, a huge contract and pedestrian production -- and this isn't sudden. He was trending that way for the vast majority of last season

He's not a difference-maker anymore, and he's no more relevant right now than Marcus Kruger. He's not worth the energy we give him, anymore
- AllInForFlyers

I disagree that Mike Richards is a 4th line forward in this league. He's still easily a top 9 forward. The problem is his contract, and what he brings in relation to the contract.

I do not.

Some guy on here was a nurse. We should ask him.
- flyer_nutter

I do not.

Some guy on here was a nurse. We should ask him.
- flyer_nutter

Sure -- we talk about them because we come here to talk about hockey

But Mike Richards, at this stage of his career, is a fourth-line forward with diminishing speed, a huge contract and pedestrian production -- and this isn't sudden. He was trending that way for the vast majority of last season

He's not a difference-maker anymore, and he's no more relevant right now than Marcus Kruger. He's not worth the energy we give him, anymore
- AllInForFlyers

Face it, no matter what you say, it won't matter

He's always right

If you don't believe me, just ask him

When injuries become annual events, you can't use the "if he was healthy" card with as much weight. The reality is, Vinny has been injured in each of the last few seasons and missed significant time. Being healthy for him is not something that can be counted on. So saying, if he was healthy isn't that valid an excuse

Richards is playing a more defensive role, because he's capable of doing so. At the same time he's being used in a highly defensive role, he's scoring at a pace that is 0.11 PPG less than Vinny is scoring at.

It's fair to assume if Richards was used the same way Lecavalier is used, he'd score at a similar rate. Which was the point of comparing the two players-if they had the same contract, I'd take Richards in a heartbeat over Vinny. But the contract-and the contract alone-makes Lecavalier more attractive for the Flyers.
- Jsaquella

Absolutely not!

Richards played all 82 games last season and scored something like 11 goals last season. Nothing is stopping Darrell Sutter from putting Richards on the power play and it doesn't matter which unit. There are better options in LA and Richards has played himself off of offensive situations. Richards probably should be playing ahead of Jarod Stoll and isn't.

Nothing is stopping Richards from doing Richards from doing more then Richards himself. Even Kopitar has been hurt for a small amount of time. I assume Richards time should be increased and he's done thing with that time.

I disagree that Mike Richards is a 4th line forward in this league. He's still easily a top 9 forward. The problem is his contract, and what he brings in relation to the contract.
- MJL

On some weaker teams, sure, he'd move up -- I have no problem admitting that. But that makes him a third-liner, at best, and still not doing enough to merit debate

Because one thing should be unanimous about the guy: He's just another player in the league now, not a factor in whether the Kings win or lose, because he's no longer good enough to be counted on in that manner

Face it, no matter what you say, it won't matter

He's always right

If you don't believe me, just ask him
- BiggE

I don't mind honestly. It does give hits to the site, and I don't believe its all real opinion because of that.

Kind of learned to ignore when I get annoyed. Its all good. He knows I'd kiss him and slap his ass if we ever met over a beer.