I do not.

Some guy on here was a nurse. We should ask him.
- flyer_nutter

This is golden. Please continue.

Face it, no matter what you say, it won't matter

He's always right

If you don't believe me, just ask him
- BiggE

Trust me, I know -- he hasn't pissed me off yet, so I'm just talking

I'll shut it down the second he does

Absolutely not!

Richards played all 82 games last season and scored something like 11 goals last season. Nothing is stopping Darrell Sutter from putting Richards on the power play and it doesn't matter which unit. There are better options in LA and Richards has played himself off of offensive situations. Richards probably should be playing ahead of Jarod Stoll and isn't.

Nothing is stopping Richards from doing Richards from doing more then Richards himself. Even Kopitar has been hurt for a small amount of time. I assume Richards time should be increased and he's done thing with that time.
- SuperSchennBros

Richards hasn't scored much, and yet he's averaging just 0.11 PPG less than Lecavalier. That says a lot about how well Vinny is playing

I don't mind honestly. It does give hits to the site, and I don't believe its all real opinion because of that.

Kind of learned to ignore when I get annoyed. Its all good. He knows I'd kiss him and slap his ass if we ever met over a beer.
- flyer_nutter

You're a good man Nutter

This is golden. Please continue.
- Giroux_Is_God

I don't want to, to be honest. I come here to have some laughs and stupid fun. I think Bo said it a couple years ago, at the end of the day I'm all talk. Harmless.

When injuries become annual events, you can't use the "if he was healthy" card with as much weight. The reality is, Vinny has been injured in each of the last few seasons and missed significant time. Being healthy for him is not something that can be counted on. So saying, if he was healthy isn't that valid an excuse

Richards is playing a more defensive role, because he's capable of doing so. At the same time he's being used in a highly defensive role, he's scoring at a pace that is 0.11 PPG less than Vinny is scoring at.

It's fair to assume if Richards was used the same way Lecavalier is used, he'd score at a similar rate. Which was the point of comparing the two players-if they had the same contract, I'd take Richards in a heartbeat over Vinny. But the contract-and the contract alone-makes Lecavalier more attractive for the Flyers.
- Jsaquella

Correct

Richards hasn't scored much, and yet he's averaging just 0.11 PPG less than Lecavalier. That says a lot about how well Vinny is playing
- Jsaquella

To you. Lecavalier can still score 20 at age 35 and on a fractured back, Richards can barely score 11 goals in a full healthy season on an All-Star team.

Richards hasn't scored much, and yet he's averaging just 0.11 PPG less than Lecavalier. That says a lot about how well Vinny is playing
- Jsaquella

I'm guessing Vinnie gets a much higher percentage of offensive zone starts too

On some weaker teams, sure, he'd move up -- I have no problem admitting that. But that makes him a third-liner, at best, and still not doing enough to merit debate

Because one thing should be unanimous about the guy: He's just another player in the league now, not a factor in whether the Kings win or lose, because he's no longer good enough to be counted on in that manner
- AllInForFlyers

He's a 4th liner, now he's a 3rd liner. If he's not doing enough to merit debate, why debate it? And part of debating players is also discussing their lack of production, or poor play. Is it not?
On a team, every player counts. Any player can make one play that can cost a team in a big game, or help a team in a big game. If players like Mike Richards aren't a factor in whether a team wins or loses. How about any 4th line player? Is RJ Umberger a factor in whether the Flyers win or lose. So I don't see the sense in that viewpoint.
Lastly, with the Kings tight against the Cap, and not even able to call a player up if they need to without using LTIR, I think Richards Cap hit, and the corresponding value the Kings are getting for it, is worthy of debate. Which is really the reason why the discussion started.

Richards hasn't scored much, and yet he's averaging just 0.11 PPG less than Lecavalier. That says a lot about how well Vinny is playing
- Jsaquella

What really says the most is how you think -- repeat, opinion/think/guess, before somebody loses their poop -- would be the answer to this question:

If Ron Hextall could remove Vincent Lecavalier from the roster tomorrow, penalty-free, would he keep him or would he remove him?

If Dean Lombardi could remove Mike Richards from the roster tomorrow, penalty-free, would he keep him or would he remove him?

Because we're all different, our answers won't be the same. But just the fact that you know those general managers would consider it should tell anyone all they need to know about the value of those players, or any player, at any stage of their career

Richards hasn't scored much, and yet he's averaging just 0.11 PPG less than Lecavalier. That says a lot about how well Vinny is playing
- Jsaquella

Again, this is ignoring the back injury. Right now Lecavalier is healthy, looks a lot stronger, and is averaging .71 points per game. Which is a 58 point pace over a full season. Small sample size, but that is the pace.

Overwhelming for me.

Have a good night hooligans. Gnight and good hockey.

*ass slaps all round*

What really says the most is how you think -- repeat, opinion/think/guess, before somebody loses their poop -- would be the answer to this question:

If Ron Hextall could remove Vincent Lecavalier from the roster tomorrow, penalty-free, would he keep him or would he remove him?

If Dean Lombardi could remove Mike Richards from the roster tomorrow, penalty-free, would he keep him or would he remove him?

Because we're all different, our answers won't be the same. But just the fact that you know those general managers would consider it should tell anyone all they need to know about the value of those players, or any player, at any stage of their career
- AllInForFlyers

I think both GM's would decide to remove the player. We know Hextall tried all summer to remove Lecavalier. The point wasn't about the individual player and if they had bad contracts, it was basically if you'd take Lecavalier or Richards.

Even though Richards is a better player(admittedly better defensively and close enough offensively that it's not that far off) his contract is far worse

He's a 4th liner, now he's a 3rd liner. If he's not doing enough to merit debate, why debate it? And part of debating players is also discussing their lack of production, or poor play. Is it not?
On a team, every player counts. Any player can make one play that can cost a team in a big game, or help a team in a big game. If players like Mike Richards aren't a factor in whether a team wins or loses. How about any 4th line player? Is RJ Umberger a factor in whether the Flyers win or lose. So I don't see the sense in that viewpoint.
Lastly, with the Kings tight against the Cap, and not even able to call a player up if they need to without using LTIR, I think Richards Cap hit, and the corresponding value the Kings are getting for it, is worthy of debate. Which is really the reason why the discussion started.
- MJL

No, he's a fourth-liner -- I threw you a bone because for whatever reason, it pains some to acknowledge that the guy is in severe decline

And again, debating the value of a fourth-liner making $5-plus per year -- well, that's not even a debate

I'm guessing Vinnie gets a much higher percentage of offensive zone starts too
- BiggE

Yeah.

Richards O-Zone starts in all situation is 51.85%. In 5 on 5 Close, it's 45.28

Lecavalier's O-zone starts in all situations is 68.24%. 5 on 5 close is 67.86

I think both GM's would decide to remove the player. We know Hextall tried all summer to remove Lecavalier.
- Jsaquella

And to me, that tells you all you need to know

What really says the most is how you think -- repeat, opinion/think/guess, before somebody loses their poop -- would be the answer to this question:

If Ron Hextall could remove Vincent Lecavalier from the roster tomorrow, penalty-free, would he keep him or would he remove him?

If Dean Lombardi could remove Mike Richards from the roster tomorrow, penalty-free, would he keep him or would he remove him?

Because we're all different, our answers won't be the same. But just the fact that you know those general managers would consider it should tell anyone all they need to know about the value of those players, or any player, at any stage of their career
- AllInForFlyers

All that alludes to is the value that the player brings versus cap hit. Not to mention whether a player is an older player that they view as part of the future. That doesn't point to the player, not being a good player anymore. The Flyers have a future plan, as how they want to form their team. Which is likely a center lineup of Giroux/Couturier/Laughton/Bellemare. Not necessarily in that order. That doesn't mean that Lecavalier isn't a good player. It just means that he's 34. TB didn't buy out Lecavalier because he isn't a good player anymore. They bought him out because he's not a 7M a year player anymore. Same with Richards. He's not playing to the level of a 5.75M player signed to a deal with 5 more years left, plus recapture issues.

I don't want to, to be honest. I come here to have some laughs and stupid fun. I think Bo said it a couple years ago, at the end of the day I'm all talk. Harmless.
- flyer_nutter

Yes.

I think both GM's would decide to remove the player. We know Hextall tried all summer to remove Lecavalier.
- Jsaquella

Agreed

Declining production + bad contract = guy who GM would like to get rid of

It ain't rocket science. If Hextall could buy out both VLC and Umberger with no cap penalty, he'd be packing their bags and warming up the car for the ride to the airport

Overwhelming for me.

Have a good night hooligans. Gnight and good hockey.

*ass slaps all round*
- flyer_nutter

Remember, I work hard for these sweetcheeks, so I'm not the least bit offended that you wanted to smack it

No, he's a fourth-liner -- I threw you a bone because for whatever reason, it pains some to acknowledge that the guy is in severe decline

And again, debating the value of a fourth-liner making $5-plus per year -- well, that's not even a debate
- AllInForFlyers

There isn't any metric that you can provide that says he is a 4th liner. And it really has nothing to do with being in decline. That's been obvious for a while. The question isn't is he is still a good player. The question is, is he worth his current contract.

Yes.
- Giroux_Is_God

I come here for the life advice

I come here for the life advice
- PhillySportsGuy

I usually end up here cause I'm drunk and there's no driving involved

Agreed

Declining production + bad contract = guy who GM would like to get rid of

It ain't rocket science. If Hextall could buy out both VLC and Umberger with no cap penalty, he'd be packing their bags and warming up the car for the ride to the airport
- BiggE

No question about that. But buying a player out, doesn't mean a player is a bad player. It could, but it's not automatic.

MJ, its getting a little out of hand.

Cool it man, you are good.