I think the only truly untouchable player in the NHL is Sidney Crosby. No matter what the package was, Pittsburgh would not trade him. Other than that, maybe Weber is untouchable due to the cash investment, but I don't see anyone else who is 100% truly untouchable.
- jmatchett383

It's all semantics really. If we want to use the technical definition, then I'd argue that even Crosby isn't untouchable (it would have to be a King's ransom) but I think there is a more accepted definition that makes the assumption that teams will not offer unreasonably lop-sided trades that would make a team trade a player like Crosby.

To be fair, the reasonable fans were calling for a Schenn for equally young dman trade if they wanted a trade at all. Otherwise, the Flyers as an org don't make a habit out of trading young talent. Since 2005, they've traded Tye McGinn, Matt Mangene, Shane Harper, Harry Z, Mike Testwuide, Luke Pither, JVR, Bob, Jon Kalinski, Kevin Marshall, Stefan Legein, Rob Bordson, Matt Clackson, Michael Chaput, Patrick Maroon, David Laliberte, Jon Matsumoto, Ryan Parent, Michael Ratchuk, Luca Sbisa, Joffrey Lupul, Scottie Upshall, Tim Ramholt, Steve Downie, Kyle Greentree, Ryan Potulny, RJ Umberger, Jussi Timonen, Ben Eager, Joni Pitkanen, Matt Ellison, Vaclav Pletka, Dennis Seidenberg, Patrick Sharp and Eric Meloche.

The young talent that came in has been Mitch Wahl, Luke Schenn, Mark Alt, Matt Ford, Wayne Simmonds, Brayden Schenn, Jakub Voracek, Tom Sestito, Danny Syvret, Rob Bordson, Ville Leino, Stefan Legein, Ryan Dingle, Matt Carle, Andrew Alberts, Patrick Hersley, Ned Lukacevic, Tim Ramholt, Janne Niskala, Joffrey Lupul, Lasse Kukkonen, Brayden Coburn, Ryan Parent, Scottie Upshall, Eric Meloche, Niko Dimitrakos and Matt Ellison.

This doesn't include picks either and the Flyers have "won" and "loss" their share of both. This being said, the Flyers haven't given up that much young talent (without reason) and not gotten enough back in subsequent trades to get burned all that much.
- NickTheKid87

When you bring up Tom Sestito in an example of young talent, you've taken my words to literal.

If the Flyers were to trade Brayden Schenn today for a defenseman, you've taken away from the forwards and asked both Lecavalier and Umberger to do more and to be more. You've also taken from the future of the top six. Trading Brayden Schenn for a young defenseman unevens the balance of the forwards.

In the realm of realistic trades I would put Giroux and Voracek as untradeable. Sure if someone is offering you Stamkos, Crosby, Malkin, OV, Doughty or an equivalent player and G or Jake are part of the package you think about it.

I put Simmonds and Couturier in that next tier right below Giroux and Jake. I would be willing to move them sooner than those 2 because I dont think you damage your team as much by moving them.

As for Simmonds for the 1 overall pick. Ekblad may turn out to be a great player but it's too early to say any dman is going to be a star..Hell the year Bogosian was drafted people were really talking him up and that hasn't panned out.

All the same if your core at forward are Giroux, Voracek, Couturier and Simmonds who are all young still then I am really excited.

It's all semantics really. If we want to use the technical definition, then I'd argue that even Crosby isn't untouchable (it would have to be a King's ransom) but I think there is a more accepted definition that makes the assumption that teams will not offer unreasonably lop-sided trades that would make a team trade a player like Crosby.
- NickTheKid87

If we really want to get down to it, Wayne Gretzky was traded. But I think we all understand what is meant by untouchable. Which is really another way of saying another team isn't likely going to give up what it would take for the Flyers to be willing to trade Giroux. And this maybe a contradiction, but with a player like Couturier, his worth to the Flyers is higher then his worth would be on the open trade market.

Crosby also has done most of his damage on the pp. Jake leads the nhl in ES points I believe
- PhillySportsGuy

Yea half of Crosby's points are on the PP, which is not remotely sustainable. That PP is scary hot though

You're missing the point. Lindros was our among the best in the league then, Giroux is among the best now.
- SuperSchennBros

Like OP said, it's a semantic argument.

To you, untouchable includes your current best/most-marketable player. Like Kessel.

To me, it means somebody that doesn't get traded under any circumstances, for whatever reason. Crosby, since he's virtually irreplaceable. Young Lindros, since they gave up half an NHL team and a truck full of cash for him. Etc.

I think the only truly untouchable player in the NHL is Sidney Crosby. No matter what the package was, Pittsburgh would not trade him. Other than that, maybe Weber is untouchable due to the cash investment, but I don't see anyone else who is 100% truly untouchable.
- jmatchett383

Hmm
What if Tampa offered Stamkos, Drouin, Hedman and 3 firsts?

Like OP said, it's a semantic argument.

To you, untouchable includes your current best/most-marketable player. Like Kessel.

To me, it means somebody that doesn't get traded under any circumstances, for whatever reason. Crosby, since he's virtually irreplaceable. Young Lindros, since they gave up half an NHL team and a truck full of cash for him. Etc.
- Tomahawk

Lindros was traded, but not until the concussions and the contract issues happened. Which is what I assume is meant by including the young part.

MacKinnon is pretty close imo
- PhillySportsGuy

According to Berube, Umberger, Rinaldo and VDV are also untouchable.

It's all semantics really. If we want to use the technical definition, then I'd argue that even Crosby isn't untouchable (it would have to be a King's ransom) but I think there is a more accepted definition that makes the assumption that teams will not offer unreasonably lop-sided trades that would make a team trade a player like Crosby.
- NickTheKid87

Exactly. Untouchable is a relative term. I call Couturier untouchable because it's highly unlikely a team would trade the return I'd be comfortable trading him for. Everyone has their price.

Like OP said, it's a semantic argument.

To you, untouchable includes your current best/most-marketable player. Like Kessel.

To me, it means somebody that doesn't get traded under any circumstances, for whatever reason. Crosby, since he's virtually irreplaceable. Lindros, since they gave up half an NHL team and a truck full of cash for him. Etc.
- Tomahawk

To me, untouchable is maintaining the balance of the team without breaking it, all to strike gold by getting one player in return. What good is Shea Weber if we've traded Giroux, Voracek and Couturier to get him.

Idk about that part.

They have gotten burned on quite a few... You also left out some pretttty noticeable names up there in Mike Richards and Jeffy Carter.
- jak521

Richards and Carter were already seasoned vets at that point so I wouldn't consider them young talent in the same way as the others.

In terms of picks, the Flyers traded the picks that were used for (notably):

John Moore (Pronger deal)
Jonathan Blum (Hartnell/Timonen)
TJ Brennan (Biron)
John Carlson (Eminger)

The picks they received:
Shayne Gostisbehere (Versteeg)
Sean Couturier (Carter)
Luca Sbisa (Umberger)
Patrick Maroon (Sim)

Stolarz, Leier, Cousins and Friedman were also selected with picks from trades. This also doesn't account for the fact that they got Pronger, Timonen, Hartnell, etc. IMO, the Flyers really haven't gotten burnt or lucky more than average.

Wayne Gretzky was sold for $15M cash.
- MJL

ftfy

If we really want to get down to it, Wayne Gretzky was traded. But I think we all understand what is meant by untouchable. Which is really another way of saying another team isn't likely going to give up what it would take for the Flyers to be willing to trade Giroux. And this maybe a contradiction, but with a player like Couturier, his worth to the Flyers is higher then his worth would be on the open trade market.
- MJL

I agree this gets overlooked so often...especially with people harping on "where is his offensive upside?" You can't get the value he brings to the ice on the market...he essentailly locks down the opponents #1 line in the playoffs. That alone is gold!

ftfy
- Tomahawk

Really! You crack me up.

1) Holy poop. 56 shutouts for Bernie? Only the LORD saves more

2) Jake is actually putting on one of the most impressive shows I've ever seen. I'm showing my lack of age, but this is pretty fun to watch.

3) My hell is over. I got an Eric Lindros on OTC yesterday and finished my SOAP note. I'm done til finals.

The amount of alcohol I'll be washing my liver with in the next week and a half will rival the scale of the Red Sea washing away the Egyptians.

When you bring up Tom Sestito in an example of young talent, you've taken my words to literal.

If the Flyers were to trade Brayden Schenn today for a defenseman, you've taken away from the forwards and asked both Lecavalier and Umberger to do more and to be more. You've also taken from the future of the top six. Trading Brayden Schenn for a young defenseman unevens the balance of the forwards.
- SuperSchennBros

It's reasonable to want to trade Schenn for a young dman like Gormley or what not. It's not like people calling for a Giroux trade like at the beginning of last year. That was downright silly. I also think most of the reasonable people that were considering a Schenn trade were doing it with the idea that this current team is transitory so this particular season is essentially a wash.

Hmm
What if Tampa offered Stamkos, Drouin, Hedman and 3 firsts?
- BiggE

Why not add in a few more players? It wouldn't be any more unrealistic.

According to Berube, Umberger, Rinaldo and VDV are also untouchable.
- BiggE

This is some A1 trolling right here!

Yea half of Crosby's points are on the PP, which is not remotely sustainable. That PP is scary hot though
- jak521

I saw Barry Melrose briefly on Sportscenter and he think Crosby will reach 150 points. I think there's no way

ftfy
- Tomahawk

Exactly, it was a cash grab by Pocklington, pure and simple.

Most top end talents that get traded due to special circumstances.

When Orr was traded to the Blackhawks, his knees were basically shot and the Bruins cheapskate ownership didn't want to keep paying him.

When Gretzky was moved it was a cash grab

Lindros was traded due to personality conflicts with the GM.

Patrick Roy was traded because he was humiliated by then coach, Mario Tremblay and he made it clear to ownership that he would sit out rather than play another game for Montreal.

It's reasonable to want to trade Schenn for a young dman like Gormley or what not. It's not like people calling for a Giroux trade like at the beginning of last year. That was downright silly. I also think most of the reasonable people that were considering a Schenn trade were doing it with the idea that this current team is transitory so this particular season is essentially a wash.
- NickTheKid87

I haven't thought of this season as a wash, at any time.

Exactly, it was a cash grab by Pocklington, pure and simple.

Most top end talents that get traded due to special circumstances.

When Orr was traded to the Blackhawks, his knees were basically shot and the Bruins cheapskate ownership didn't want to keep paying him.

When Gretzky was moved it was a cash grab

Lindros was traded due to personality conflicts with the GM.

Patrick Roy was traded because he was humiliated by then coach, Mario Tremblay and he made it clear to ownership that he would sit out rather than play another game for Montreal.
- BiggE

Please elaborate as this was before my time.

This is some A1 trolling right here!

- MBFlyerfan

Well, if you are going to do something, you should try to do it well!

Exactly, it was a cash grab by Pocklington, pure and simple.

Most top end talents that get traded due to special circumstances.

When Orr was traded to the Blackhawks, his knees were basically shot and the Bruins cheapskate ownership didn't want to keep paying him.

When Gretzky was moved it was a cash grab

Lindros was traded due to personality conflicts with the GM.

Patrick Roy was traded because he was humiliated by then coach, Mario Tremblay and he made it clear to ownership that he would sit out rather than play another game for Montreal.
- BiggE

Thank you.