Gagne was out of the league for an entire year. Let's sit Read, who takes his place?
- MJL

You must have missed where I said 'a few years ago' for Gagne. It was during a dry spell with the Flyers, and it woke him up.

Jones was healthy scratch last night, he could play. Is it optimal? Of course not. Is Read's play (or Umberger's, or others') optimal right now? No. I'm just bringing up an option. I doubt it will happen, but it might not hurt.

He wasn't the only to not look good last night.
- ob18

really? thanks for the insight. i watched the game and in a game where there were plenty of players not playing well he stood out. if they had a last star of the game it would have been him. feel free to continue to argue that he wasn't any worse than others.

First up Rinaldo ?
- ob18

I'd sit Umberger before Rinaldo...and yeah, that's depressing.

IMO the Flyers just have too many 4-6 dmen and borderline forwards to be a playoff team.

Borderline forwards: VLC* Umberger*, Akeson, Rinaldo, VDV, Jones
*doesn't matter what they've done in the past they are borderline players now. Also while he's looked great so far, you have to wonder when Bellemare hits a wall. He's used to playing a much shorter and easier schedule against weaker competition.

4-6 dmen: Schultz, CC, Schenn, Grossmann, Streit. Also AMac, Coburn and MDZ are only 2nd pairing guys as well.

I want to be optimistic, but I have to be realistic. At the end of the day, Im willing to be patient, I think Hextall has a long range plan and in his heart he knew there was a very good chance that this team would be in the lottery
- BiggE

I think it's pretty sad when it's predicted that a player like Bellemare, who has done nothing but impress since he's been here, is now going to hit a wall. It's sad. How successful a team is going to be, isn't based on speculative ranking of it's players. It's based on how those players are going to play as a team. We've seen this team play strong hockey, and we've seen them play poor inconsistent hockey. It's November and only 15 games into the season. We'll see what happens.

Worst course of action that you could take as a coach. Read doesn't deserve that. He deserves a chance to play his way out of it.
- MJL

yes, of course.....because nothing you ever think is wrong....how silly of me

really? thanks for the insight. i watched the game and in a game where there were plenty of players not playing well he stood out. if they had a last star of the game it would have been him. feel free to continue to argue that he wasn't any worse than others.
- hogweed

You are welcome, I am not arguing you are, I made my reply which is my opinion you can choose to respect it or keep arguing.

You must have missed where I said 'a few years ago' for Gagne. It was during a dry spell with the Flyers, and it woke him up.

Jones was healthy scratch last night, he could play. Is it optimal? Of course not. Is Read's play (or Umberger's, or others') optimal right now? No. I'm just bringing up an option. I doubt it will happen, but it might not hurt.
- tangent_man

I did miss that part. But it really doesn't matter. Still not comparable. Read has been a strong player for 3 straight seasons. Gagne hasn't been a strong player since he was with TB. I don't see it as comparable.

Jones could play. But not only is not optimal, it's foolish in my opinion. Because I don't see Jones being better. And Read deserves a chance to play his way out of it.

Breakout year for Jakub Voracek? +, did not know Wayne Simmonds was playing on the first line.

By the way, Habs may use 7 defensemen and 11 forwards. So Beaulieu could be in (not that anybody care, I guess).

re: Bellemare hitting a wall
It happens to most Euro and college players. Unlike players who come from the AHL or CHL, they just aren't used to the length/grind of the NHL schedule.

really? thanks for the insight. i watched the game and in a game where there were plenty of players not playing well he stood out. if they had a last star of the game it would have been him. feel free to continue to argue that he wasn't any worse than others.
- hogweed

The Flyers were poor team wide. Man to man. And an overall poor team performance. In my opinion, singling out any one player when a game is played like that, doesn't accomplish anything.

I'd sit Umberger before Rinaldo...and yeah, that's depressing.

- BiggE

Umberger, VandeVelde...couple guys

re: Bellemare hitting a wall
It happens to most Euro and college players. Unlike players who come from the AHL or CHL, they just aren't used to the length/grind of the NHL schedule.
- BiggE

It happens sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't.

Breakout year for Jakub Voracek? +, did not know Wayne Simmonds was playing on the first line.

By the way, Habs may use 7 defensemen and 11 forwards. So Beaulieu could be in (not that anybody care, I guess).
- deadpoulet

Voracek's been red hot, but it's not really a breakout year. He's been quietly elite for a couple seasons

You are welcome, I am not arguing you are, I made my reply which is my opinion you can choose to respect it or keep arguing.
- ob18

yes, obviously

I did miss that part. But it really doesn't matter. Still not comparable. Read has been a strong player for 3 straight seasons. Gagne hasn't been a strong player since he was with TB. I don't see it as comparable.

Jones could play. But not only is not optimal, it's foolish in my opinion. Because I don't see Jones being better. And Read deserves a chance to play his way out of it.
- MJL

It's not about Jones getting better, but rather waking up some of the other guys.

I'm sure the coaching staff will give Read and the others their chance to play their way out of whatever ails them, whether it takes until January or May.

Jackets acquire Jordan Leopold from Blues for a 5th rounder

The Flyers were poor team wide. Man to man. And an overall poor team performance. In my opinion, singling out any one player when a game is played like that, doesn't accomplish anything.
- MJL

and pointing out that the team played bad accomplished what?

Jackets acquire Jordan Leopold from Blues for a 5th rounder
- Jsaquella

It's not about Jones getting better, but rather waking up some of the other guys.

I'm sure the coaching staff will give Read and the others their chance to play their way out of whatever ails them, whether it takes until January or May.
- tangent_man

Players like Read have earned that trust and leeway. And earned that respect. You scratch a player for a lack of effort, or because they aren't working. Or because there is a better player to put in there. In my opinion, you don't scratch a player like Read so he can get a look from the game from the press box. That's how you lose a team, and the players respect.

What is Read's track record? As a solid 2 way player, or the player of the first 15 games this season?

Voracek's been red hot, but it's not really a breakout year. He's been quietly elite for a couple seasons
- Jsaquella

Had him in my pool last season. Started slow but had a good season. Would not say elite before right now.

and pointing out that the team played bad accomplished what?
- hogweed

It's an objective look at what happened. Instead of scapegoating or singling out one player, when the entire team played like crap.

I'm not close to closing the book on Jason Akeson as a player. I didn't see him as the problem last night. However in comparing a rookie to a player like Read, and think that they would be judged by the same standard, isn't logical. Read has shown over a number of seasons that he is a good NHL player. Akeson, has not to this point. Now Akeson is in his first season, so the difference in games and sample size is obviously not the same. The reality is that a player like Akeson is not going to get the same leeway and leash to find his game that a player like Read is.
- MJL

I understand this, and completely agree on giving Read time to work through this down period but I disagree with the philosophy behind that "reality" you pointed out of a player like Akeson getting less leeway. Rather, I think in many cases you may need to give extra leeway to a rookie, allowing them to make (and learn from) mistakes, acclimate to the new level of play, find chemistry with mates and find their place on the team. So far, Akeson has been given limited icetime, playing with the team's least skilled forwards on a short leash and no pp time. All things being equal, that's probably close to the exact opposite of how one should ultimately use such a player. While on some level, Akeson is getting a bit of experience he needs, a player of that ilk isn't likely to find chemistry and start producing (which is primarily what makes him valuable) playing with the likes of with Zac Rinaldo (or a slumping/washed up RJ Umberger). He's not at the point in his NHL career (and may never be) where he's going to carry a line of plugs or dominate on his own. Last season he showed what he can do with solid mates like Read and Couturier...I wouldn't mind seeing them reunited...maybe at least Akeson/Read together (they both need a change) with either VLC, PEB or maybe Schenn...Raffl, Simmer...somewhere in that mix.

I don't want to say that none of this is on Akeson, because for sure he can play better, but the kid didn't just forget how to produce...it would behoove the Flyers to, at some point, give the rookie and extended look on higher skilled lines and on the pp2, in order to see if he sinks or swims, before making any conclusions about his future with the team...fail to do this and there's a greater risk of miscalculating the player's value in any decisions about his future with the team and/or in any prospective deals.

It's an objective look at what happened. Instead of scapegoating or singling out one player, when the entire team played like crap.
- MJL

i don't see anyone scapegoating the guy. nobody blamed him for the loss. it would be the same if a goalie let in some soft goals. i think people might point that out

- tangent_man

I don't know why this is relevant, but I love this episode.

He brings his hand up to hold a note and then he walks away from it Hilarious

I understand this, and completely agree on giving Read time to work through this down period but I disagree with the philosophy behind that "reality" you pointed out of a player like Akeson getting less leeway. Rather, I think in many cases you may need to give extra leeway to a rookie, allowing them to make (and learn from) mistakes, acclimate to the new level of play, find chemistry with mates and find their place on the team. So far, Akeson has been given limited icetime, playing with the team's least skilled forwards on a short leash and no pp time. All things being equal, that's probably close to the exact opposite of how one should ultimately use such a player. While on some level, Akeson is getting a bit of experience he needs, a player of that ilk isn't likely to find chemistry and start producing (which is primarily what makes him valuable) playing with the likes of with Zac Rinaldo (or a slumping/washed up RJ Umberger). He's not at the point in his NHL career (and may never be) where he's going to carry a line of plugs or dominate on his own. Last season he showed what he can do with solid mates like Read and Couturier...I wouldn't mind seeing them reunited...maybe at least Akeson/Read together (they both need a change) with either VLC, PEB or maybe Schenn...Raffl, Simmer...somewhere in that mix.

I don't want to say that none of this is on Akeson, because for sure he can play better, but the kid didn't just forget how to produce...it would behoove the Flyers to, at some point, give the rookie and extended look on higher skilled lines and on the pp2, in order to see if he sinks or swims, before making any conclusions about his future with the team...fail to do this and there's a greater risk of miscalculating the player's value in any decisions about his future with the team and/or in any prospective deals.
- exlund

I disagree that Akeson should just be handed a spot on a scoring line, handed PP time, and handed icetime. That would be the opposite of how a player like Akeson should be used. He should be taught that he is going to have to earn those things.
And there needs to be some context here. Akeson is not a player who has proven he can produce at the NHL level. He has shown there is some potential there. Nothing more. So saying that he just didn't forget how to produce, isn't applicable at the NHL level. He has to prove that he can produce.