I agree with that. It's definitely not a short term move but I think all Flyers' fans will be grateful it happened - whether they know it or not - when Umberger comes off the books and Hartnell still has 2 years left.
- NickTheKid87

I believe most could understand the rationale for the deal, what makes it a sore spot is Umbungler's horrific play.

Not that he was expected to replace Hartnell's production, but his total inability to contribute anything positive to date is disturbing.

I'll be interested to see how he approaches the minor roster moves when he gains a little more flexibility. The MDZ signing as worked out so far and I hope it continues and I hope we see more low risk, high reward moves in the future. I'm confident we will.
- NickTheKid87

That's the key, balancing the needs with the cap. Holmgren always managed to find bargains, too. Read, Raffl, etc

Yeah, not to get all chess club here, but Hexy's barely a few moves into his opening... Umberger for Hartsy was a gambit, giving up a piece now to confer an advantage later on in the game.

Homer played checkers.
- Tomahawk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnKNL6jEUJk

The value is in the 2 years we won't be paying Hartnell. And Umberger has been worse than advertised. I also don't buy the character argument. I'd rather invest my money in more tangible assets.
- NickTheKid87

Every team needs a player like Hartnell. Flyers have no back bone right now. Its a problem.

I believe most could understand the rationale for the deal, what makes it a sore spot is Umbungler's horrific play to date.

Not that he was expected to replace Hartnell's production, but his total inability to contribute anything positive to date is disturbing.
- 77rams

He looks like a guy that is washed up. He's playing soft, making lazy plays, generally being little more than a body on the ice.

Every team needs a player like Hartnell. Flyers have no back bone right now. Its a problem.
- GOA88

We have Simmonds who's better, cheaper, younger, tougher and more disciplined.

We have Simmonds who's better, cheaper, younger, tougher and more disciplined.
- Feanor

Completely agree with this. You get someone who has grit and fights when need-be, but someone who isn't falling all over the ice like a fool, crashing into our own goalies, and taking stupid penalties on a nightly basis.

We have Simmonds who's better, cheaper, younger, tougher and more disciplined.
- Feanor

Well then he needs to play like it cause he is one of the culprits the last few games.

IDK, Hartnell has a lot more character than Umby. Hartnell is still a pain in the ass to play against while Umby is surprisingly... well you know..

We absolutely got no value in return.......
- GOA88

The value in return is over $4M in cap space in 3 years rather than 5. That could be the difference between signing a marquee free agent or being able to hand out raises to rfas without having a casu

You need to re-read the post and my reply closer.

I was only commenting on a poster's remark about a bad contract and the situation it currently places us in.

My reply was that you can't worry about what was done and that you only hope that the bad contracts can be undone somehow.

If you thought it was an indictment on Holmgren's entire body of work, you read too much into it.
- 77rams

What I thought it was, is a discussion on Holmgren's body of work as a GM. I was unaware that there were only certain parameters that the conversation was limited to.

Completely agree with this. You get someone who has grit and fights when need-be, but someone who isn't falling all over the ice like a fool, crashing into our own goalies, and taking stupid penalties on a nightly basis.
- WarriorHockey21

Still. Hartnell was a Flyer by the true definition. Right now this team does not have an identity.

Every team needs a player like Hartnell. Flyers have no back bone right now. Its a problem.
- GOA88

Yes but keeping Hartnell would solve that problem now but having his contract in the future would be a burden. If you look at it at present, it was an awful deal, but the point of it wasn't to be effective at present. It's part of a long term plan.

If you view this year as a transitional year, which seems to be how Hextall is approaching it, the season is essentially irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. The team wasn't meant to be a Cup contender this year, there's a plan in place to make them one 3-5 years down the road if things go accordingly.

If I were to go to Saturday's game against Columbus, should I put a paper bag over my head before the start of the game or after the first period?

Still. Hartnell was a Flyer by the true definition. Right now this team does not have an identity.
- GOA88

I also agree with that... unfortunately.

The value in return is over $4M in cap space in 3 years rather than 5. That could be the difference between signing a marquee free agent or being able to hand out raises to rfas without having a casu
- RAGSareDANGERus

Well ist still a loss in my book if Umberger cant even contribute a strong forecheck. He is utterly useless.

If I were to go to Saturday's game against Columbus, should I put a paper bag over my head before the start of the game or after the first period?
- Streit2ThePoint

They'll probably be down by 2 within the first period, so I'd say a sweet spot in between the two..

I believe most could understand the rationale for the deal, what makes it a sore spot is Umbungler's horrific play.

Not that he was expected to replace Hartnell's production, but his total inability to contribute anything positive to date is disturbing.
- 77rams

So far he has been far less effective than anyone could have expected which is not the fault of the GM. Either way, I don't really care about how this season turns out unless they win the Cup which is a long shot.

They'll probably be down by 2 within the first period, so I'd say a sweet spot in between the two..


- WarriorHockey21

Good call

That is definitely managements fault for bringing in players with no passion and intensity. You can scream at them and they'll get in going for a few games but most of these players dont naturally have that demeanor. It is not something you can teach. Some people are just too laid back and soft in all aspects of life.
- GOA88

Yeah.. it's not all of them, but sometimes I don't see enough intensity.. We need Emery out there more often haha

I don't think it's necessary to balance things out. We all know that people do good and bad things. No need to have some half-assed Johnny Cochran trot out all the good stuff as a defense of a guy.

You should be able to make a post that is critical of a player, coach or GM without having to acknowledge that he's not all bad. There's nothing in the code of conduct that says opinions have to be balanced.
- Jsaquella

And there also isn't anything in the code of conduct that says an opinion can't be offered in rebuttal to a criticism of a player, coach or GM. I understand that the climate of this forum, and the cliques involved, only want negativity, and aren't tolerant of objective and fair analysis of any player, coach, or GM, that includes both sides the good and the bad of a body of work by a player, coach, or GM.

Yes but keeping Hartnell would solve that problem now but having his contract in the future would be a burden. If you look at it at present, it was an awful deal, but the point of it wasn't to be effective at present. It's part of a long term plan.

If you view this year as a transitional year, which seems to be how Hextall is approaching it, the season is essentially irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. The team wasn't meant to be a Cup contender this year, there's a plan in place to make them one 3-5 years down the road if things go accordingly.
- NickTheKid87

Honestly... I dont think that will happen either. These young guys we have are never gonna light the world on fire....

And there also isn't anything in the code of conduct that says an opinion can't be offered in rebuttal to a criticism of a player, coach or GM. I understand that the climate of this forum, and the cliques involved, only want negativity, and aren't tolerant of objective and fair analysis of any player, coach, or GM, that includes both sides the good and the bad of a body of work by a player, coach, or GM.
- MJL

What kind of (frank)ing cliques are here. This is the internet. Calm your tits.

They'll probably be down by 2 within the first period, so I'd say a sweet spot in between the two..


- WarriorHockey21

NO, before the game cause the Flyers are gonna lay another egg tonight. I have that feeling

And there also isn't anything in the code of conduct that says an opinion can't be offered in rebuttal to a criticism of a player, coach or GM. I understand that the climate of this forum, and the cliques involved, only want negativity, and aren't tolerant of objective and fair analysis of any player, coach, or GM, that includes both sides the good and the bad of a body of work by a player, coach, or GM.
- MJL

I'm a lone wolf, ain't got no clique.

Honestly... I dont think that will happen either. These young guys we have are never gonna light the world on fire....
- GOA88

There are more drafts to be held, free agents to be signed and trades to be made. Aside from that we already have a solid core to build around including a bonafide superstar in Claude Giroux and a budding star in Jake Voracek. If things go according to plan, Sanheim, Ghost and Morin could anchor the core of the blueline. All Hextall needs is time and cap space and the Hartnell trade will certainly help with the latter.