You know what? I think a pair of Coburn and Drew Doughty is a special mix of one Shea Weber. I think those two guys would be an impressive pair, much like Coburn and Timonen were...but better!
- SuperSchennBros

yeah. either riding shotgun with one of those high end guys, or anchoring the second pair.

he would look great. and then people would be mad he left.

yeah. either riding shotgun with one of those high end guys, or anchoring the second pair.

he would look great. and then people would be mad he left.
- stayinthefnnet

Yep!

I think this finally a conversation about Coburn we should all finally have.

To me, it's less a reflection of his value on the ice, and more about the hard reality of budgeting for the future. One of the fatter contracts on the blueline needs to go in the next 12-24 mos... Coburn's the guy who's going to net you the good return. Of course, I would rather it be somebody else (cough, AMac), but it is what it is.
- Tomahawk

I don't see budgeting for the future as an issue. And where you trim the fat, is on the 3rd pair.Grossmann and Schenn making 3.6M and 3.5M. That's too much. That's where you create space. And you continue to underestimate MacDonald as a player.

Voynov a "bona fide" LTIR situation to give Kings cap relief...

http://www.nhl.com/ice/ne...740398&navid=nhl:topheads
- bgratch

Debilitating injury to his reputation?

Speaking for myself, I'm not being reactionary with my recent posts about possibly trading Coby. My reasoning is based on his entire tenure as a Flyer and the outlook going forward given his possible future salary demands, his value in the marketplace and the outlook for the team's defensemen...but there definitely are a faction of fans around here that seem to to be quick on the draw in terms of wanting certain players traded, usually during a slump...I put Read in a different category than Coby and would be less apt to trade him. I believe he will play better and more consistent once he's out of the current funk. Coby meanwhile is consistently inconsistent imo.
- exlund

I think Coburn is a much better player then he is given credit for. And he's a player that when he's gone, it's realized how much he is missed. Any defenseman that isn't a true#1 is inconsistent and has weaknesses. That's why they're not #1's. Big, mobile, physical quality defenseman don't grow on trees. And I definitely think that he would bring quality value in the marketplace. But that's not enough justification for trading him in my book.

I don't see budgeting for the future as an issue. And where you trim the fat, is on the 3rd pair.Grossmann and Schenn making 3.6M and 3.5M. That's too much. That's where you create space. And you continue to underestimate MacDonald as a player.
- MJL

I like Grossmann a lot. I always have. I think a lot of the haters have come around. It's taken longer than expected but I think people see his importance now. With this said, I've never seen him as apart of this team's future plans. It sounds nuts but I think Luke Schenn is gonna have to take over for Grossmann soon in the top 4. I think there will be some growing pains as he gets increased ice time and faces tougher opponents but I do believe you need one of Luke Schenn or Nicolas Grossmann on the back end. You just do, you need one.

Speaking for myself, I'm not being reactionary with my recent posts about possibly trading Coby. My reasoning is based on his entire tenure as a Flyer and the outlook going forward given his possible future salary demands, his value in the marketplace and the outlook for the team's defensemen...but there definitely are a faction of fans around here that seem to to be quick on the draw in terms of wanting certain players traded, usually during a slump...I put Read in a different category than Coby and would be less apt to trade him. I believe he will play better and more consistent once he's out of the current funk. Coby meanwhile is consistently inconsistent imo.
- exlund

Honestly. I think if we trade Coburn to the LA regadless of the return, LA wins another Cup. The Kings are already a Cup contender but I feel sending Coburn helps the Kings as much as the Richards, Carter and Gaborik trades all did.

I like Grossmann a lot. I always have. I think a lot of the haters have come around. It's taken longer than expected but I think people see his importance now. With this said, I've never seen him as apart of this team's future plans. It sounds nuts but I think Luke Schenn is gonna have to take over for Grossmann soon in the top 4. I think there will be some growing pains as he gets increased ice time and faces tougher opponents but I do believe you need one of Luke Schenn or Nicolas Grossmann on the back end. You just do, you need one.
- SuperSchennBros

The real issue is that when you don't have that true #1 stud, that's when you have to have that more expensive depth. Because you don't have that all situations #1 defenseman that can play in all the key situations for 25 minutes a game. When you have that, you can get away with cheaper defenseman on the 3rd pair.

I think Coburn is a much better player then he is given credit for. And he's a player that when he's gone, it's realized how much he is missed. Any defenseman that isn't a true#1 is inconsistent and has weaknesses. That's why they're not #1's. But big, mobile, physical quality defenseman don't grow on trees. And I definitely think that he would bring quality value in the marketplace. But that's not enough justification for trading him in my book.
- MJL

Yeah, I cited a few other factors, but obviously you rate him higher than I do. I recognize his value in terms of him being a decent, mobile, defensive d-man able to eat some minutes, but his inconsistent play, as you'll probably agree, keeps him from eating too many without faltering, so ideally you want to keep him around say, 20 mins or so, which limits his value to some extent (too inconsistent and not enough offense to be a #1 or even an ideal #2 type) imo.

I don't want to pay a #3/4 type with and inconsistent D game and little to no offensive game the $5+ mil he's likely to ask on his next contract, esp with monies that need to be allocated to other expiring contracts (Raffle, Coots, B Schenn, Jake). I also think the Flyers can fill in his missing minutes just fine using the resourcefulness they've shown in being able to do that without missing a beat while he was out (some may even say they were better). I don't want to just "get rid of him" but, all things considered, if the Flyers can get high value for him in this sellers market, then I think they should be willing to do it.

Honestly. I think if we trade Coburn to the LA regadless of the return, LA wins another Cup. The Kings are already a Cup contender but I feel sending Coburn helps the Kings as much as the Richards, Carter and Gaborik trades all did.
- SuperSchennBros

As long as it helps us just as much as those deals did too, I'm all for it.

Too much cliquey negativity in this thread.

Too much cliquey negativity in this thread.
- PLindbergh31

get out you didn't pass hazing yet

yeah. either riding shotgun with one of those high end guys, or anchoring the second pair.

he would look great. and then people would be mad he left.
- stayinthefnnet

He's shown he can be highly effective in that type of role. But, what is his worth? If he comes in and demands $5.5mm is it better to deal him? Keep in mind his new deal will kick in when Voracek, Schenn & Couturier are all up for new deals. I'd say that's a potential $7mm extra in cap hits to consider, adding on to their current AAV

The real issue is that when you don't have that true #1 stud, that's when you have to have that more expensive depth.
- MJL

I'm pretty sure MDZ playing top-pair minutes at $1.3M and Nick Schultz playing top-4 minutes at $1.25M breaks the above rationale.

He's shown he can be highly effective in that type of role. But, what is his worth? If he comes in and demands $5.5mm is it better to deal him? Keep in mind his new deal will kick in when Voracek, Schenn & Couturier are all up for new deals. I'd say that's a potential $7mm extra in cap hits to consider, adding on to their current AAV
- Jsaquella

true. 5.5 mil may not be bad though. that depends on where the cap is at that moment in time.

if you think you have in house replacements for him, or can use the assets acquired from him to replace him, then for sure look at it. i dont think he is in any means an untouchable player.

but when the defense has been the issue, trading him away will likely make that issue worse.

true. 5.5 mil may not be bad though. that depends on where the cap is at that moment in time.

if you think you have in house replacements for him, or can use the assets acquired from him to replace him, then for sure look at it. i dont think he is in any means an untouchable player.

but when the defense has been the issue, trading him away will likely make that issue worse.
- stayinthefnnet

That's the conundrum. I think Coburn is a fantastic support guy. Put him with a strong partner and I think he's a legit number 2 defenseman. Trouble is, when he has to be the alpha dog, he struggles, tries to do too much.

At a slight raise-$500K or so, I'd happily keep him. Without the MacDonald deal, it'd be a no brainer if he wanted $5.5mm or even $6mm.

After last year's early season debacle, I'm not hitting the panic button or the doomsday button either.

Also, seeing the entire mess going up in Toronto, I'm just willing to let the Flyers dig out of this hole themselves. They are better than their record shows, IMO. I know it's all fun and games for us when we point the fingers at Umberger, VLC, Coburn, MacDonald, etc. But you know what? These guys aren't so freakin' terrible. Who knows what happens if they get going?

After last year's early season debacle, I'm not hitting the panic button or the doomsday button either.

Also, seeing the entire mess going up in Toronto, I'm just willing to let the Flyers dig out of this hole themselves. They are better than their record shows, IMO. I know it's all fun and games for us when we point the fingers at Umberger, VLC, Coburn, MacDonald, etc. But you know what? These guys aren't so freakin' terrible. Who knows what happens if they get going?
- KGBflyers10

Aren't the Leafs 6 points ahead of the Flyers? If that's a mess, what is the Flyers situation?

If we were to trade Coburn for a first round pick to the LA Kings or the Chicago Black Hawks, my question to everyone here is, did we make that team better? I think we did. I ask this because I think we under value Coburn.
- SuperSchennBros

If you trade anyone for any pick you're making that team better. It's always the long run viewpoint when you're acquiring a pick for a player. Not really sure what you're getting at here.

Aren't the Leafs 6 points ahead of the Flyers? If that's a mess, what is the Flyers situation?
- PLindbergh31

Hoping that key players outside of Giroux and Voracek can find consistency in their game, that guys like Umberger and Lecavalier have anything left in the tank and that the GM can find a way to keep the team competitive and lose some of the more unwieldy contracts

That's the conundrum. I think Coburn is a fantastic support guy. Put him with a strong partner and I think he's a legit number 2 defenseman. Trouble is, when he has to be the alpha dog, he struggles, tries to do too much.

At a slight raise-$500K or so, I'd happily keep him. Without the MacDonald deal, it'd be a no brainer if he wanted $5.5mm or even $6mm.
- Jsaquella

The McDonald deal alost certainly means one of the D men have to go. You don't draft as any D en as you have over the last few years to let these bloated contracts stay here.

Aren't the Leafs 6 points ahead of the Flyers? If that's a mess, what is the Flyers situation?
- PLindbergh31

they are a mess with less success

leafs are more succmessful ?

Hoping that key players outside of Giroux and Voracek can find consistency in their game, that guys like Umberger and Lecavalier have anything left in the tank and that the GM can find a way to keep the team competitive and lose some of the more unwieldy contracts
- Jsaquella

I think everything here is possible with the exception of Umberger and Lecavalier. Those guys are sunk costs.

I think everything here is possible with the exception of Umberger and Lecavalier. Those guys are sunk costs.
- PLindbergh31

And that is a BIG sunk cost. With little chance of moving those two Hexy may have to trim the dollars elsewhere. My feeling has been it will be one of the higher paid D men in favor of Ghost. Maybe two now that MDZ is out playing everyone else. Though he will get a nice raise this offseason for sure.

The McDonald deal alost certainly means one of the D men have to go. You don't draft as any D en as you have over the last few years to let these bloated contracts stay here.
- hereticpride

They can't. They'll miss Grossmann's physical play, but they can't carry him for the amount he's making now. Of course, they may decide to keep him and move Schenn, just to retain a physical player. MDZ (if re-signed), Streit and MacDonald aren't going to thump anyone, Coburn's not physical and outside of Morin the top prospects aren't known as physicallly punishing or intimidating player.s