I think everything here is possible with the exception of Umberger and Lecavalier. Those guys are sunk costs.
- PLindbergh31

I agree. Lecavalier has been better than last season, but he's not playing well. Umberger, ugh. There's just so much going bad there.

I agree. Lecavalier has been better than last season, but he's not playing well. Umberger, ugh. There's just so much going bad there.
- Jsaquella

he is a black hole. every time somebody passed the puck to him last night a good forecheck met an early demise.

And that is a BIG sunk cost. With little chance of moving those two Hexy may have to trim the dollars elsewhere. My feeling has been it will be one of the higher paid D men in favor of Ghost. Maybe two now that MDZ is out playing everyone else. Though he will get a nice raise this offseason for sure.
- hereticpride

Umberger had 2 points in the game against Pittsburgh, that means he has 1 point in the other 17 games. That's impossibly bad. I know it's not all about goals and assists, but he isn't bringing anything else to the table. Lecavalier when not putting up points is a tremendous liability. The Flyers are stuck with these players. There isn't any team out there that would touch either one with a ten foot pole.

I agree. Lecavalier has been better than last season, but he's not playing well. Umberger, ugh. There's just so much going bad there.
- Jsaquella

Couple in Rinaldo, and VDV that's 1/3 of the forward core that produces basically zero offensively. That puts a ton of pressure on Giroux and Voracek. There just isn't much secondary scoring. And we all know the defense core is patchwork at best. Unfortunately there is a lot not to like at the moment. Things can change, hopefully for the better.

Umberger had 2 points in the game against Pittsburgh, that means he has 1 point in the other 17 games. That's impossibly bad. I know it's not all about goals and assists, but he isn't bringing anything else to the table. Lecavalier when not putting up points is a tremendous liability. The Flyers are stuck with these players. There isn't any team out there that would touch either one with a ten foot pole.
- PLindbergh31

I still think a team could get interested in Vinny if we eat a little money. And with Laughton waiting in the wings I'm perfectly fine with that.

RJ is just blah. He's the winger version of Rathje.

rather keep vinny than rj, at least vinny shows signs of possibly still being able to chip in offensively

I still think a team could get interested in Vinny if we eat a little money. And with Laughton waiting in the wings I'm perfectly fine with that.

RJ is just blah. He's the winger version of Rathje.
- hereticpride

I don't think anyone touches Lecavalier. He looks like toast now, and has 3 more years on his deal. And another thing, what contending team is Lecavalier good enough to crack their lineup? With his current level of play he's not good enough to see the ice for a contender. And why would a bad team want an aging player?

I still think a team could get interested in Vinny if we eat a little money. And with Laughton waiting in the wings I'm perfectly fine with that.

RJ is just blah. He's the winger version of Rathje.
- hereticpride

No hes not merely blah, he hasnt got himself on LTIR for 3 years yet.
Talk about cap hell.

rather keep vinny than rj, at least vinny shows signs of possibly still being able to chip in offensively
- -davies-

+1

Yeah, I cited a few other factors, but obviously you rate him higher than I do. I recognize his value in terms of him being a decent, mobile, defensive d-man able to eat some minutes, but his inconsistent play, as you'll probably agree, keeps him from eating too many without faltering, so ideally you want to keep him around say, 20 mins or so, which limits his value to some extent (too inconsistent and not enough offense to be a #1 or even an ideal #2 type) imo.

I don't want to pay a #3/4 type with and inconsistent D game and little to no offensive game the $5+ mil he's likely to ask on his next contract, esp with monies that need to be allocated to other expiring contracts (Raffle, Coots, B Schenn, Jake). I also think the Flyers can fill in his missing minutes just fine using the resourcefulness they've shown in being able to do that without missing a beat while he was out (some may even say they were better). I don't want to just "get rid of him" but, all things considered, if the Flyers can get high value for him in this sellers market, then I think they should be willing to do it.
- exlund

You're right about one thing. We definitely have a difference of opinion on Coburn.

I don't think anyone touches Lecavalier. He looks like toast now, and has 3 more years on his deal. And another thing, what contending team is Lecavalier good enough to crack their lineup? With his current level of play he's not good enough to see the ice for a contender. And why would a bad team want an aging player?
- PLindbergh31

All good points. but you never know. It depends how much the Flyers would be willing to eat I guess. If you eat 2 mil and bring Laughton in on an ELC and replace one of the D men with Ghost on an ELC you've got yourself some room to play with. Vinny for 2.5 would be attractive for a few teams for sure.

No hes not merely blah, he hasnt got himself on LTIR for 3 years yet.
Talk about cap hell.
- Steelmanpa

We would probably be better off if he found himself on extended LTIR.

I'm pretty sure MDZ playing top-pair minutes at $1.3M and Nick Schultz playing top-4 minutes at $1.25M breaks the above rationale.
- Tomahawk

I'm glad you're pretty sure. I guess you think that Schultz belongs playing top 4 minutes. And that Del Zotto is going to cost 1.3M forever.

After last year's early season debacle, I'm not hitting the panic button or the doomsday button either.

Also, seeing the entire mess going up in Toronto, I'm just willing to let the Flyers dig out of this hole themselves. They are better than their record shows, IMO. I know it's all fun and games for us when we point the fingers at Umberger, VLC, Coburn, MacDonald, etc. But you know what? These guys aren't so freakin' terrible. Who knows what happens if they get going?
- KGBflyers10

You should post more often. It's refreshing.

rather keep vinny than rj, at least vinny shows signs of possibly still being able to chip in offensively
- -davies-

if I could only trade one of them. I trade Lecavalier, and keep Umberger.

As long as it helps us just as much as those deals did too, I'm all for it.
- exlund

Draft picks and prospects don't always do. They are always gambles.

if I could only trade one of them. I trade Lecavalier, and keep Umberger.
- MJL

I don't even know how they could trade RJ right now unless they're flat out giving away an asset in the deal. ie RJ and a 2nd rounder for a 7th round pick/future considerations.

if I could only trade one of them. I trade Lecavalier, and keep Umberger.
- MJL

Would get more for Vinny, and I would rather keep him if I had the choice.
I would dump RJ in a heartbeat. Vinny can bring some offensive ability... Corpse has brought Zero!
I wouldn't subject to a Vinny trade though

If you trade anyone for any pick you're making that team better. It's always the long run viewpoint when you're acquiring a pick for a player. Not really sure what you're getting at here.
- hereticpride

This isn't true at all. Sometimes trades workout, sometimes they don't.

if I could only trade one of them. I trade Lecavalier, and keep Umberger.
- MJL

Agreed. I like Vinny more but Lecavalier is older and his contract is longer.

rather keep vinny than rj, at least vinny shows signs of possibly still being able to chip in offensively
- -davies-

I don't even think it is a feasible option to keep Umberger if this is all he has left, but you can fake it with VLC, as you say

This isn't true at all. Sometimes trades workout, sometimes they don't.
- SuperSchennBros

But the whole point of a team moving a pick for a player is the "it makes us better now/sooner" aspect.

Would get more for Vinny, and I would rather keep him if I had the choice.
I would dump RJ in a heartbeat. Vinny can bring some offensive ability... Corpse has brought Zero!
I wouldn't subject to a Vinny trade though
- 3flyerkids

I don't know that any difference in the return would point to one player or the other. I disagree that Umberger has brought zero to the team. I'm not saying he's playing well. But even if he isn't scoring, he can still contribute. He can still play a checking role on the 4th line, and play on the PK.
If Lecavalier isn't scoring, he has no value to a team.

Would get more for Vinny, and I would rather keep him if I had the choice.
I would dump RJ in a heartbeat. Vinny can bring some offensive ability... Corpse has brought Zero!
I wouldn't subject to a Vinny trade though
- 3flyerkids

I don't think you'd get anything for either of them. It's a situation where the best return would be less of an impact on the salary cap-and that's a stretch, too.

Either way it's unlikely. I can't see another team having much interest in either.

I don't even think it is a feasible option to keep Umberger if this is all he has left, but you can fake it with VLC, as you say
- AllInForFlyers

I don't think you can fake it with Lecavalier. He either plays on a scoring line, and contributes points, or he is of no value. Even with Umberger not scoring, he can still play on the 4th line and contribute on the PK. Take away Lecavalier's offense, and there is nothing there.