Soooo..what are u tryin to say?
- jmdodgeser4

Sorry, man -- I'm just fed up with always catering to the worst (frank)ing players on the team, figuring out how to get by with them on the roster, instead of giving two of the world's best hockey players some quality depth to play with instead of the poop they've had to carry on the fourth for the last two-plus seasons

what voracek and giroux are doing is amazing and if they weren't clicking right now the team might not have won a game
- 2Real

if read/coot/vinny/umberger all were chipping in, well...it might mask some of our issues on the blueline.

Sorry, man -- I'm just fed up with always catering to the worst (frank)ing players on the team, figuring out how to get by with them on the roster, instead of giving two of the world's best hockey players some quality depth to play with instead of the poop they've had to carry on the fourth for the last two-plus seasons
- AllInForFlyers

i hear you. you need the rest of the team to pitch in, and as you said, you can see how far a 4th line can help carry a team, when they are capable of playing more than 5-7 sheltered, energy minutes.

schenn has stepped up. read and coot need to do the same.
- hammarby31

Absolutely -- I admire all the things Couts does for the team, and no, it hasn't always been fair. No, I don't expect him to score as much as some other centers

But life ain't always fair, and no, it's not unreasonable to expect Read to score goals and Couturier to be more dangerous offensively

Absolutely -- I admire all the things Couts does for the team, and no, it hasn't always been fair. No, I don't expect him to score as much as some other centers

But life ain't always fair, and no, it's not unreasonable to expect Read to score goals and Couturier to be more dangerous offensively
- AllInForFlyers

i get those guys are in more of a defensive role, but they have to contribute on the scoreboard too.

i get those guys are in more of a defensive role, but they have to contribute on the scoreboard too.
- hammarby31

It's tough, but those are the expectations that come, especially with the extension Read earned

I'm not asking Read to do a single thing he hasn't done before

Absolutely -- I admire all the things Couts does for the team, and no, it hasn't always been fair. No, I don't expect him to score as much as some other centers

But life ain't always fair, and no, it's not unreasonable to expect Read to score goals and Couturier to be more dangerous offensively
- AllInForFlyers

I know Coots will never be seen as a speed demon, but he has looked like he is skating in cement lately.

I'm starting to think maybe it's time to toy with the idea of splitting up Couturier and Read. For whatever reason they can't get their offense going. I'm especially shocked with Couts because I think we all have been in agreement that moving Couturier would hopefully help his offensive game, but it just hasn't worked out.

Maybe it's a little too early for that, but they can't keep hoping for the PP and the 1st line to do the bulk of the scoring.

Very nice game by Laughton. The physicality was sorely missed.

Get him the hell away from those two fools he is playing with and move them to the fourth line.

Give him a Bellemare and healthy Raffl when he returns.

I like this lineup a lot more if Read starts scoring

I want to believe in Scott Laughton, but as a rookie, it's not fair to expect him to center a line that will produce enough to offset the horror that is that fourth line
- AllInForFlyers

That 4th line would not be a horror.

That 4th line would not be a horror.
- MJL

Suspense/thriller?

Suspense/thriller?
- hereticpride

No it'd be a comedy

Mark my words: If they stand pat and just ride it out, then miss the postseason, they could easily regret it.

If they were just good players having good years, I'd say, "Fine. (frank) it. Whatever."

But you've got a reigning Hart Trophy finalist arguably playing even better than he did last year, being joined by a guy who is playing even better than he is.

Think about that for a second.

They are doing every single thing superstars are supposed to do: They are carrying this team right now.

You have a goalie who has done nothing for you but win games, play well, with the occasional hiccup.

Again: I'm not saying acquire some big-ticket player who you can't afford and costs a billion assets. I know they can't, and won't, do that.

But the Rags proved last year just how far you can go with third and fourth-liners who can actually play.

You can carry VLC. It's not ideal, but you can carry him.

But no one will ever convince me that the Flyers can't do better than choosing between Umberger, Rinaldo and Vandevelde every night, ESPECIALLY if Read isn't scoring and with a PK that is ranked DEAD LAST IN THE LEAGUE.

That's right, folks. The Flyers are DEAD LAST in the entire National Hockey League on the PK.

If Read doesn't start scoring soon, then yeah, you gotta look at that. And yeah, you gotta look at upgrading with defensive specialists and hockey-smart players who can help fix that PP and give you good minutes on the fourth line.

That's Hextall's job.
- AllInForFlyers

the 4th line would be Umberger/Bellermare/Rinaldo. Vandevelde would the 13th forward. The 4th line isn't going to determine the FLyers fate this year.

Suspense/thriller?
- hereticpride

I would enjoy a fourth line of Umberger-LeCavalier-Rinaldo.

Probably be in the animal porn category of movies though.

I would enjoy a fourth line of Umberger-LeCavalier-Rinaldo.

Probably be in the animal porn category of movies though.
- flyer_nutter

I suggested this earlier.

Let's just say playing that line 4 minutes per game wouldn't make me sad

No it'd be a comedy
- Giroux_Is_God

Three men (Vinny RJ Zac) and a baby (Laughton)?

I suggested this earlier.

Let's just say playing that line 4 minutes per game wouldn't make me sad
- Giroux_Is_God

Exactly. Just roll 3 lines like Laviolette used to do a lot. Its sad but whatever. I'd buy out #40 and #18 in the off-season. Nobody will trade for them. Give the minutes to someone else that can contribute something.

I read, not sure from who (exlund maybe), but that Hextall is wanting to milk anything out of Umberger so to not have the trade be see as a total mess. I could see some truth to that.

Exactly. Just roll 3 lines like Laviolette used to do a lot. Its sad but whatever. I'd buy out #40 and #18 in the off-season. Nobody will trade for them. Give the minutes to someone else that can contribute something.

I read, not sure from who (exlund maybe), but that Hextall is wanting to milk anything out of Umberger so to not have the trade be see as a total mess. I could see some truth to that.
- flyer_nutter

Call me crazy, but I do think Hexy could milk a pick out of Vinny, one way or another. I think he at least has some facsimile of value left in him for a contender.

Umberger on the other hand...

That 4th line would not be a horror.
- MJL

By what metric, exactly, are you basing that on? Seriously. I'm asking you what makes you say that.

Zac Rinaldo's a minus-six this year. R.J. Umberger's a minus-seven.

You know where that places them in the entire National Hockey League? Out of all 717 players who have played this season?

There are 643 players better than that, in Rinaldo's case. There are 665 better in Umberger's case.

Lest we forget Chris Vandevelde, he's a minus-5.

And also, just so we don't forget, the Flyers are 30th out of 30 teams in the National Hockey League on the PK.

Plus-minus isn't a great statistic. But it's one we all understand.

Now, because I'm clearly stupid. Walk me through it slowly. Tell me again how that fourth line wouldn't be a horror. Tell me how you know that.

I am dying to have you explain this to me.

Call me crazy, but I do think Hexy could milk a pick out of Vinny, one way or another. I think he at least has some facsimile of value left in him for a contender.

Umberger on the other hand...
- Giroux_Is_God

I'll put it this way.

If the Flyers are going up against a team, that employs LeCavalier. You are coach.

Which of the teams opposing lines are you going to try and get Giroux matched up against? I cant see anyone wanting him. Jiblets on the table.

I'll put it this way.

If the Flyers are going up against a team, that employs LeCavalier. You are coach.

Which of the teams opposing lines are you going to try and get Giroux matched up against? I cant see anyone wanting him. Jiblets on the table.
- flyer_nutter

Understand me when I say value.

I think we could get at most a 4th. That's being optimistic. If Hexy can find a taker in the first place.

Otherwise, it's time to bury him on the fourth line. I'm getting real sick of this poop. Is his mom complaining to the coach for playing time or something?

Umberger's mom must be doing something more

Understand me when I say value.

I think we could get at most a 4th. That's being optimistic. If Hexy can find a taker in the first place.

Otherwise, it's time to bury him on the fourth line. I'm getting real sick of this poop. Is his mom complaining to the coach for playing time or something?

Umberger's mom must be doing something more
- Giroux_Is_God

I honestly have no idea but with Holmgren giving out the deal I'd be somewhat confident saying Vinny has a NTC. Issue #1.

I don't see another GM, even Florida, Toronto or Phoenix going after him. He has too many years left and makes too much cash. Who knows though, but if nobody wanted him last summer, and him playing at the same trash level this year...

I honestly have no idea but with Holmgren giving out the deal I'd be somewhat confident saying Vinny has a NTC. Issue #1.

I don't see another GM, even Florida, Toronto or Phoenix going after him. He has too many years left and makes too much cash. Who knows though, but if nobody wanted him last summer, and him playing at the same trash level this year...
- flyer_nutter

Not arguing in the slightest.

By what metric, exactly, are you basing that on? Seriously. I'm asking you what makes you say that.

Zac Rinaldo's a minus-six this year. R.J. Umberger's a minus-seven.

You know where that places them in the entire National Hockey League? Out of all 717 players who have played this season?

There are 643 players better than that, in Rinaldo's case. There are 665 better in Umberger's case.

Lest we forget Chris Vandevelde, he's a minus-5.

And also, just so we don't forget, the Flyers are 30th out of 30 teams in the National Hockey League on the PK.

Plus-minus isn't a great statistic. But it's one we all understand.

Now, because I'm clearly stupid. Walk me through it slowly. Tell me again how that fourth line wouldn't be a horror. Tell me how you know that.

I am dying to have you explain this to me.
- AllInForFlyers

You're wasting your time because he's never wrong

Never

Whats worse, he'll fill up endless pages trying to convince you of his unending correctness

By what metric, exactly, are you basing that on? Seriously. I'm asking you what makes you say that.

Zac Rinaldo's a minus-six this year. R.J. Umberger's a minus-seven.

You know where that places them in the entire National Hockey League? Out of all 717 players who have played this season?

There are 643 players better than that, in Rinaldo's case. There are 665 better in Umberger's case.

Lest we forget Chris Vandevelde, he's a minus-5.

And also, just so we don't forget, the Flyers are 30th out of 30 teams in the National Hockey League on the PK.

Plus-minus isn't a great statistic. But it's one we all understand.

Now, because I'm clearly stupid. Walk me through it slowly. Tell me again how that fourth line wouldn't be a horror. Tell me how you know that.

I am dying to have you explain this to me.
- AllInForFlyers

What makes me say that? Looking at this team over the first 19 games. How they've been inconsistent in overall effort. How they have stopped playing at times and give up 3 goal leads in the 3rd period. How they don't show up for games such as against the Rangers. How overall as a team they turn the puck over too much, and blow defensive coverages. That's how I know. But just like last year when you were dying for me to explain to you that the Flyers didn't need to make a trade to score goals, I'm stating that the 4th line is the least of the Flyers worries. And there are umpteen more and bigger factors that are going to determine if the Flyers make the playoffs, then the 4th line.

I guess the 4th line rant is taking the place of the Flyers need to make a trade to score goals rant that took place last year.