I emailed with Teek last night and replied the same. God damn hardware wars
- wilsonecho91

the greatest.

Not advocating - just pondering

Coots and Coburn and a 3rd to Edmonton for...
- wilsonecho91

You wanna piss me off

When was the last time the Flyers had someone first in points after 20 game Mark

Which defenseman will be a healthy scratch on Monday if the Flyers dress six? Tonight's ice time would suggest it will be Luke Schenn, who skated 8:48 over 12 shifts and did not get another shift after Calvert got inside position on the second Columbus goal.

That would be fair.

But that goal started with Umberger being too slow to get to Skille and stop the breakout in the Columbus zone. How he got 5 minutes more than Bellemare last night is beyond me.

When was the last time the Flyers had someone first in points after 20 game Mark
- Winning

I'm guessing either Lindros in 95-96 or Forsberg in 05-06

That would be fair.

But that goal started with Umberger being too slow to get to Skille and stop the breakout in the Columbus zone. How he got 5 minutes more than Bellemare last night is beyond me.
- Feanor

How he's still in the lineup at all amazes me.

Great to see them play a good game and get a win. Hopefully they can keep it up!

That would be fair.

But that goal started with Umberger being too slow to get to Skille and stop the breakout in the Columbus zone. How he got 5 minutes more than Bellemare last night is beyond me.
- Feanor

Umberger made a strong effort to rub out Skille. And then after that, picked up the trailer on the play and had him covered. So I have no problems with Umberger on that play. But there is a subtle reason why Schenn got beaten to the net. It's more then just lacking the speed. If we watch the replay, the puck and the play is in the left corner in Columbus D zone. Luke Schenn is still all the way over on the opposite point, far away from the play. Not moving his feet to adjust to the play. So he had more distance to skate to defend that rush. He should've drifted more towards the middle of the ice, to where the play was, which would've left him in better position to cut off that rush. Not only that, but he put himself on the outside of the goal scorer, instead of fighting for inside position.
On Columbus PP goal, Schenn read the play, but he again didn't move his feet. He remained flat footed, and reached to try and defend the pass cross ice. If he simply moves his feet and takes one stride, probably less then one stride, he can easily defend that pass.
This is a player that lacks strong mobility, and speed. He's gets caught flat footed and out of position, too much. And he doesn't have the speed to make up for it.

How he's still in the lineup at all amazes me.
- BiggE

He's still in the lineup because he is a LW, and there isn't anybody better to replace him. I think when Raffl comes back, Umberger will move to the 4th line. At least I hope that's what happens.

How he's still in the lineup at all amazes me.
- BiggE

It is truly a great mystery on how RJ continues to get steady ice time.

I'm guessing either Lindros in 95-96 or Forsberg in 05-06
- BiggE

I think Forsberg was. He got off to a ridiculous start.

I think Forsberg was. He got off to a ridiculous start.
- PhillySportsGuy

Yeah, that line with him, Gagne and Knuble was unstoppable for the first couple months of that season.

That would be fair.

But that goal started with Umberger being too slow to get to Skille and stop the breakout in the Columbus zone. How he got 5 minutes more than Bellemare last night is beyond me.
- Feanor

He also made such a strong effort on the cross ice pass through the "box" that led to the Blue Jackets' first goal. I mean, he almost moved a bit.

I'm confident that Bellemare could slide up to that spot and be a lot more effective. He's played LW for years in Europe, so it's not like he's never played there. His speed and ability to make things happen trumps Umberger's experience.

He also made such a strong effort on the cross ice pass through the "box" that led to the Blue Jackets' first goal. I mean, he almost moved a bit.

I'm confident that Bellemare could slide up to that spot and be a lot more effective. He's played LW for years in Europe, so it's not like he's never played there. His speed and ability to make things happen trumps Umberger's experience.
- Jsaquella

I blame Luke Schenn for that pass getting through. He had to take all of a half a stride to block that pass. Umberger was up high.

I'd have no problem with Umberger and Bellemare switching lines. Although I don't know that Bellemare can play the left side. Berube wants Bellemare at center though, I believe.

Not advocating - just pondering

Coots and Coburn and a 3rd to Edmonton for...
- wilsonecho91

I actually think this is worthwhile to ponder. I suggested this yesterday, even though my brain farted and I said I wanted their 1st and Ehlers (from Winnipeg, duh).

The reason I had Ehlers and Winnipeg on the brain was because I don't think the other pieces from Edmonton match up. The players Edmonton would give up would not be the ones we would want back. The players we would want, they wouldn't give up. And salary could be an issues.

I think they'd give up Perron, but we would need more if Coots is included. I'd actually want Hall, but they'd never give him up, and the salary would be a problem. Prospect wise, Draisaitl and Nurse would be the only two that I'd want for a package that included Coots, and I don't think they give up either.

Making the 1st round pick the centerpiece is problematic. There was actually a nice article on ESPN about that type of proposal, using the Toronto-Boston Kessel trade as an example. Edmonton might do it thinking that with better defense they'd be close to a playoff team. But the lower the pick falls, the less likely the Flyers would be to want it. The article talked about when for a GM to take that gamble.

Last thing. If you include Vinnie or Umberger, the return is going down. Not sure I want to give up Coots to dump Vinnie.

Package 1: Taylor Hall for Coots, Coburn
Package 2: Perron, #1 for Coots, Coburn, Vinnie/Umberger
Package 3: Perron, Nurse for Coots, Coburn

He also made such a strong effort on the cross ice pass through the "box" that led to the Blue Jackets' first goal. I mean, he almost moved a bit.

I'm confident that Bellemare could slide up to that spot and be a lot more effective. He's played LW for years in Europe, so it's not like he's never played there. His speed and ability to make things happen trumps Umberger's experience.
- Jsaquella

I have been hoping that Bellemare would slide up into the current spot held by the Corpse for quite some time now.
There is no reason that RJ can be defended. He has played poorly. Just because he plays LW should not guarantee him a spot. It's up to management and the coach to get the most production from each and every player.
The guy is an overrated, over payed, washed up 4th line player.

I actually think this is worthwhile to ponder. I suggested this yesterday, even though my brain farted and I said I wanted their 1st and Ehlers (from Winnipeg, duh).

The reason I had Ehlers on the brain was because I don't think the other pieces match up. The players Edmonton would give up would not be the ones we would want back. The players we would want, they wouldn't give up. And salary could be an issues.

I think they'd give up Perron, but we would need more if Coots is included. I'd actually want Hall, but they'd never give him up, and the salary would be a problem. Prospect wise, Draisaitl and Nurse would be the only two that I'd want for a package that included Coots, and I don't think they give up either.

Making the 1st round pick the centerpiece is problematic. There was actually a nice article on ESPN about that type of proposal, using the Toronto-Boston Kessel trade as an example. Edmonton might do it thinking that with better defense they'd be close to a playoff team. But the lower the pick falls, the less likely the Flyers would be to want it. The article talked about when for a GM to take that gamble.

Last thing. If you include Vinnie or Umberger, the return is going down. Not sure I want to give up Coots to dump Vinnie.

Package 1: Taylor Hall for Coots, Coburn
Package 2: Perron, #1 for Coots, Coburn, Vinnie/Umberger
Package 3: Perron, Nurse for Coots, Coburn
- TheGreat28

I don't see the Flyers giving up Couturier. Or the Oilers giving up Hall

I have been hoping that Bellemare would slide up into the current spot held by the Corpse for quite some time now.
There is no reason that RJ can be defended. He has played poorly. Just because he plays LW should not guarantee him a spot. It's up to management and the coach to get the most production from each and every player.
The guy is an overrated, over payed, washed up 4th line player.
- 3flyerkids

What guarantees him a spot is that there isn't anybody better to take his place. He has played poorly. Any culpability on the players to produce the most that they can, or is it all on management and the coach?

I have been hoping that Bellemare would slide up into the current spot held by the Corpse for quite some time now.
There is no reason that RJ can be defended. He has played poorly. Just because he plays LW should not guarantee him a spot. It's up to management and the coach to get the most production from each and every player.
The guy is an overrated, over payed, washed up 4th line player.
- 3flyerkids

He doesn't play well in any aspect. He loses battles along the boards, he's not especially good defensively. There have been games where he's looked like he's not giving an especially good effort or that he's playing scared of contact. Not to mention straight up dumb mistakes.

Look at the Jenner goal last night, Schenn is covering a guy in front of the net, Umberger's standing in the slot. He's not covering the point, he's standing in the slot. Schenn made a coverage mistake, but Umberger wasn't doing much of anything.

Umberger is piss poor

What guarantees him a spot is that there isn't anybody better to take his place. He has played poorly. Any culpability on the players to produce the most that they can, or is it all on management and the coach?
- MJL

The coach and management have to realize when a guy is " done" and if they can't see Hamburglar is done,then they have a problem.
If the GM goes down and rips them a new Butt hole after a loss, I am sure he is well aware of who is performing and who is not. If your not.... Then sit !
I know they probably can't unload him but at least make him sit or take minutes away make him work for his playing time. Bellemare has earned RJ's minutes !

Umberger is piss poor
- Giroux_Is_God

I think he's still got it, he's just not using it for whatever reason.

I'd categorize him as a major disappointment.

He doesn't play well in any aspect. He loses battles along the boards, he's not especially good defensively. There have been games where he's looked like he's not giving an especially good effort or that he's playing scared of contact. Not to mention straight up dumb mistakes.

Look at the Jenner goal last night, Schenn is covering a guy in front of the net, Umberger's standing in the slot. He's not covering the point, he's standing in the slot. Schenn made a coverage mistake, but Umberger wasn't doing much of anything.
- Jsaquella

Not giving an effort, loosing board battles, and playing scared are all good adjectives of his game. I notice Bellemare on the ice. You can't really say that about the Zombie.
I want to see every one do well who wears that uniform, but it is time to put this guy to pasture.

The coach and management have to realize when a guy is " done" and if they can't see Hamburglar is done,then they have a problem.
If the GM goes down and rips them a new Butt hole after a loss, I am sure he is well aware of who is performing and who is not. If your not.... Then sit !
I know they probably can't unload him but at least make him sit or take minutes away make him work for his playing time. Bellemare has earned RJ's minutes !
- 3flyerkids

I have zero problem with switching Umberger and Bellemare. But here is the problem I have. Most of this fanbase has wanted the Flyers to get a better 4th line. One that can play without getting outshot, and out chanced every game. Bellemare does that for the Flyers in centering the 4th line. Adding him has made a difference in that department. So if they move Bellemare, that might create a weakness there.
I'm pretty sure that if the Flyers could find away to move Umberger off the team, and cut their losses, they would. But the chances of doing that are almost nil at this point. So instead, they continue to play him in the hopes that he improves. He is also a LW, and with Raffl hurt, the are short on LW's. So hopefully when Raffl comes back, he can take over, and Umberger can move to the 4th line, which is where his current level of play, dictates that he should be.

I think he's still got it, he's just not using it for whatever reason.

I'd categorize him as a major disappointment.
- tangent_man

I'd categorize this as a major understatement.

If he's still got it, that's news to me, because he hasn't shown anything to even hint that since the start of the season. He's been a tire fire and it's really starting to piss me off.

Hopefully he get into a groove though. Mercy.